Skip to main content
Topic: High speed Pick & Place for $3600 (Read 345107 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Reply #345
Quote
You create a reel set in the ULP, which specifys the reel index 0, being the front tray, 1+ being the reels, a height for the part, then a mm amount to move the part in the feeder, for a 0603 i used 0.5 height and 4mm move.

Ah, now I get it. I've downloaded the ULP and had a quick look at it along with the relevant forum posts, looks great - can even add extra reels for TM-240 but probably need a portrait monitor to view them all.

Looks like it will do the job :-)

Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Reply #346
I mix strips and reels - for short/non leaders on strips I'm taking a length of thick thread - fold it in half - tie a few knots to make a loop and drop that into the slot of the take up spool, pull the loop at the other end tight and then fold a thin bit of masking tape through it, stick one side above the short leader and one below

Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Reply #347
hi,
did anybody tried a tray of qfp fixed on the machine?

Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Reply #348
I am interested in buying a 240.  I sure wish there were a usb port so the file  ( text file ) could be edited on the fly in a PC and dumped to the device versus having to use the SD. It think that since they already have the SD card reader and software to read the SD, that it would be a simple matter to add a feature to allow a USB transfer, and store to SD for faster setups.  Maybe the company can respond as to whether I could add my own USB port, and attach my own processor to the card for file transfer.  Perhaps if the machine is not reading the file, then the SD card is not mounted and I can make a mod to allow for the PC to write to a processor module that writes the file to SD.  An alternative may be to use a wifi SD card so the card never has to leave the slot, just write to the SD with changes or new files.

I have parts close to the edge, but it looks like this has been addressed as an easy thing to solve by removing the top fingers. 

If the board was cut on a saw, is there any offset from fiducial 1 to fiducial 2 to account for some non-square board?

Can a text file be created from scratch or is the ULP mandatory?  I have eagle and will download and see if it works later. 

I noticed some comments on a larger part being rotated due the rotation being to fast or abrupt rotation stop.  On my own PNP design, I can slow down the rotation.  Can the rotation speed be adjusted on this machine to avoid the part overshooting?

Thanks for any responses.

Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Reply #349
Hey tchapman: 

I have a 220, and am constantly moving the SD from the machine to a laptop for editing, so I understand your concern.  To be fair, once the file is tweaked, you just run it from the card.  However, it takes a while to get a file from the ULP to a ready-to-go state.

I have also wondered about using a wifi-sd card -- anyone try one?

First off, you could manually build a file.  You can also edit them in the machine (though the date/time disappears which bothers some pc progs).

The ULP from jamz is, though not perfect, very useful.  It extracts all of the part centroids, and builds a good starting file.  Since Eagle ULP is some C code of sorts, anyone can tweak it, but I have not looked into that yet.  I have been tweaking the ULP-generated csv file for each board.  Some of the changes I manually make:
- fix the %... lines so they line up in the columns properly on the machine
- remove rotations of 180 or -180 for (many) non-polar R and C parts
- fix errors when a tape IC is 180 degrees off
- fix errors when a tape diode is 180 degrees off
- group all like parts together (they are sorted by ref-des), so I can set head-1/2 on alternating parts for efficiency
- insert speed commands between different groups (eg: 80% for basic R and C, 30% for Tant-A for less fall-off and better place...)
- break the file into more than one to do multiple runs per board (eg: add an IC to front tray, run xxx2.csv, etc)

gil

 

Re: Front Tray Problems -- HELP!

Reply #350
Hey folks:

I have been frustrated today -- problems with chips in the front tray -- HELP!

It is a simple file to place eight identical parts that are loaded in the tray 0 pockets.

Problem 1:  Height.  These are SOP-22 chips, so I initially set height to the spec of 1.8mm, and the head would go to the first pocket, hammer the nozzle up and down a bit (never reaching the chip), then try pocket 2, then 3, then give up with a constant beeeeeeep.  I then set height to 0, and it seemed to work for one or two boards, and then it started missing at some random pick up (eg: it would pick up and place from pocket 1 to 3, then fail with the hammer/beep, sometimes just get two, maybe four, maybe none).  I tried height of -1, and it does not seem to matter what the height is.  Any advice????????

Problem 2:  Failure-lock-up.  When the machine does get to a pickup failure (tray or reel) and starts the constant beeeeeep, it does not seem to have a way to escape out, let you fix the problem, and continue.  I have needed to make a temp csv with the already-placed parts deleted, which is a real PITA.  Am I missing something?

Problem 3:  Rotation on the first part from the front tray (only).  The first part (pocket) of tray one gets picked up, should not rotate at all, but gets placed with about a 15-degree-clockwise error -- happens every time.  Subsequent identically-defined parts place with no rotation, as they should.  This is with very slow 30% speed with an L nozzle.  It is also head-2, since I need it to reach over 220mm for a couple of other (reel) chips in the same run (I have not tried it with head-1),  Huh?

Any advice appreciated.  Excerpt of the file is below.

thx,  gil
-----------

(snip)
%,Setup,Stack,Off-X,Off-Y,Desc,,
65535,1,0,-3,3.5,Front-tray-SOP22,
65535,1,1,0,0,-,
(snip)
%,Feed,Stack,mm,,
65535,2,0,18.015,
65535,2,1,4,
(snip)
%,Panel,Board,Off-X,Off-Y,,
%65535,3,0,0,0,0,0,0,
(snip)
%,30%,Speed,,
0,3,0,0,0,0,0,0,
%,Head,Stack,X,Y,Rot,Height,Skip,Ref,Comment,,
111,2,0,15.24,51.44,0,-1,0,U8,BD3805F-SOIC22-200-50
110,2,0,31.75,51.44,0,-1,0,U7,BD3805F-SOIC22-200-50
109,2,0,48.26,51.44,0,-1,0,U6,BD3805F-SOIC22-200-50
108,2,0,64.77,51.44,0,-1,0,U5,BD3805F-SOIC22-200-50
107,2,0,81.28,51.44,0,-1,0,U4,BD3805F-SOIC22-200-50
106,2,0,97.79,51.44,0,-1,0,U3,BD3805F-SOIC22-200-50
105,2,0,114.30,51.44,0,-1,0,U2,BD3805F-SOIC22-200-50
104,2,0,130.81,51.44,0,-1,0,U1,BD3805F-SOIC22-200-50

Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Reply #351
Try a larger nozzle. Also, check your nozzles for burrs, preferably under the microscope. One of mine was giving similar results, fixed by lightly sanding the business end using 600 grit sandpaper.

Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Reply #352
My 240 has shipped, so in a few days I can get started.  I am contemplating an app to create files that will allow to generate duplicate boards by adding an offset to each new pcb position.  I have one big stencil that has many board types on it, so I can only apply solder to one individual board at a time.  My plan is to take a  piece of aluminum plate, approximate thickness of the pcb (on the edges) to fit the fingers, drill with a cnc  various hole patterns to mount any number of my boards.  Then, I can run a file that may be x1 board, x2, x3, x4 x8 etc depending on the file I created with offsets.  I am assuming that it is an easy matter to set the placement height of the part since the pcb will now be sitting higher than normal? I haven't bothered to look at the Eagle ulp yet.  Ideally I want to input data from an application, then generate the file from that.  Same the app's board configuration, then make easy tweaks, export new file and/or variants of multiples.  I am told by neoden that the wifi sd will not work, although I am not sure why that would be true.  I will try it anyway, since swapping cards seems like not fun.  Not sure why they did not include a usb port for PC/Mac controller or programming, I would pay extra for this feature as the front screen editing seems doable but PC editing would be far more elegant. Oh well.

Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Reply #353
Hey tchapman:

I don't know if you want to raise the board by putting on a holder.  First, the is only 3mm of usable part height as it is, and you will cut that down to 1.4, limiting your part options.  Second, I don't know how the machine would react to the higher surface.  There is a height parameter, which may let you compensate, but I have found height to be useless for front tray parts at least.

You can do arrays of the same board using the built in board offset command.  I have not sone this but others have.  You can also make your own array of different boards, by just laying them out as one big board with all unique reference designators.  Just lay them out the way you want and add provision for scoring or routing.  The place machine thinks it is one big board.  I am doing this for four different boards of the same dimension.

Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Reply #354
Further info on tray 0 issues:

If my cvs places part from the reels first, an then goes to the tray, I get the missed pickup where the head hammers too high, tries three pockets, then gives up.  If I change it to place tray 0 first, things are fine.

Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Reply #355
If you ran into a failure use the step button to get out of the problem.

Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Reply #356
Glad everyone is finding this useful. Mine is now sitting in a storage room in Hong Kong waiting to come across the border into Shenzhen. I did not find it particularly useful and stopped playing with it long ago.

At this time I will not be arranging any more group buys, but I still hope to get it for sale at Seeed Studio. We had some motion on this, but then it kind of came to a halt.
Got a question? Please ask in the forum for the fastest answers.

Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Reply #357
I attached a new version of the TM220A ULP Eagle Script where I fixed the problems related to the parts rotation, I tested it with many angles combinations including reel rotation correction, now it seems to work fine. Tested only with TM240A with reel number settled at 28.

Re: Front Tray Problems -- HELP!

Reply #358
[quote author="teletypeguy"]Hey folks:

Problem 2:  Failure-lock-up.  When the machine does get to a pickup failure (tray or reel) and starts the constant beeeeeep, it does not seem to have a way to escape out, let you fix the problem, and continue.  I have needed to make a temp csv with the already-placed parts deleted, which is a real PITA.  Am I missing something?

[/quote]

After fixing the problem you can press F1 key in order to select the part you want to start from.

Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Reply #359
Hi TM220A and TM240A owners!
Here is a new version of the script with multi page reel configuration for TM240A. Not tested yet, hope it works!