Group buy in Shenzhen?

Reflow ovens, hot plates, pick and place machines, test rigs, solder stencils. Small scale manufacturing and prototyping tool discussion.

Re: Group buy in Shenzhen?

Postby ian » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:01 am

Not that I know of.
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Re: Group buy in Shenzhen?

Postby matkey » Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:38 am

Im in for a hot plate.
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Re: Group buy in Shenzhen?

Postby DwayneR » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:00 am

Hi there, Ian.

I'd like to jump in on this one as well. I don't need a solder-paste dispenser system (got 2 already) but I'd be up for things like the hot plate / preheater and perhaps a small to medium size reflow oven. I'd have to look at what else would be readily available before deciding on other items.

Customs should be fairly easy - if the package is shipped via FedEx, they usually do the customs stuff for us (at least for shipments to and from the USA into Canada). If not, we have a customs broker set up to handle truck freight and UPS shipments - they have also handled PCB shipments from China to us so there should be no problems.

Payment via PayPal or Wire Transfer is easy for us. Wire transfer is especially easy and relatively inexpensive if the funds are in US dollars.

Anyway, I'd love to participate in this venture.

Many thanks!

dwayne
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Re: Group buy in Shenzhen?

Postby TomKeddie » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:59 am

*bump*

This thread seems to have gone quiet, I'm still very interested.

Cheers,
Tom
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Re: Group buy in Shenzhen?

Postby DwayneR » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:45 pm

TomKeddie wrote:This thread seems to have gone quiet, I'm still very interested.


Likewise. But I think that Ian has been / is traveling.

Ian - I had asked NeoDen about the cost of the T-962A SMT reflow oven. They quoted US $689, which included shipping to Canada. I find that to be high, compared to the about $500 cost (including shipping) if I were to purchase it from eBay. This is obviously a case where price negotiation is important.

For that matter, Ian, don't you have a T-962A oven? I can't tell from the photos that you've published, but it sure looks similar to what I see on the NeoDen website. If you *do* have a T-962A or similar oven, what did it cost you?

Anyway, I also am very interested if anything comes of this group purchase.

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Re: Group buy in Shenzhen?

Postby ian » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:08 am

Just back to the office now, sorry. A few things are happening:

1. Some people already have a limited order form. These are just a very few close friends and long-time drinking buddies who don't give a damn if something turns up worthless or broken. This is a variant of the face to face only sourcing club some people are tossing around last time I was in shenzhen. I'm getting feedback first, before making something public.

2. There will be an order form with 5-10 items released before I go to Shenzhen next on the 29th. That will go only to people who read the rules, sign a waver and fax it to me. Seriously. The flood of inquiries about the PnP and other tools has been amazing and cool, but I'm not equipped for this so it's totally overwhelming. I'm not going to profit from this, so I only want serious inquiries from interested hackers who want to tinker with the tools. This is not a commercial offering. Things may only be sold as a set, there may be a 20KG requirement (or additional $200 shipping fee), etc.

I try to respond to every single comment, email and post, eventually. I feel like a jerk, but I cannot and will not respond to any inquiries such as:

"How much will X and Y cost shipped to Z?" I have no idea! The only way I find out is standing in a muddy alley in China handing boxes over to tapers. There will be some guidelines and estimates, but nothing even close to a shipping table.

"I want X, but not Y, can you just send me X?" Things may be sold in sets to simplify bargaining. If they are, I refuse to unbundle things due to the tracking, packing, and shipping logistics. It would be a nightmare standing in that alley processing orders. That is not what shippers row is for, I'm woefully under equipped to do that, and it's generally uncool. Plenty of ebay, taobao, and aliexpress sellers are setup for that, use them! They will charge you for that convenience/service. I'm just a guy carting some stuff across the market.

"Payment is by X, but I only have Y" "Can I pay by credit card" "Can I have an invoice". Sorry, not a chance. Payment may be by wire to my personal Bank of China account, that is the dead easiest way. I have no desire to track and pool orders and wire the money myself, and paypal is expensive in fees, and I have to move the money to a bank before I can make a wire, then I have to keep track of it all. No way. If this sounds shady, get it from a reputable source. I discourage you from wiring money to a Chinese bank account of some random dude you don't know (me), it's a bad idea! See #1 above.

There will be an FAQ. I'm really sorry, but anyone who asks questions from the FAQ will be automatically excluded from the first buy. It's the only conceivable way I can see to keep it manageable.

3. If things go well, I may do a second buy. Beyond that, Seeed may release a DP documented and co-branded line of stuff I find in the market. Infrastructure can be put in place to move money, process orders, calculate shipping, track handling, etc. But I have NONE of that right now. It's just a dude in a muddy alley in China with a cart.

I really really want to make everyone happy, but I also have a ton of stuff to get done in Shenzhen and can't track and fill orders for a week gratis, then follow up on a lot of it. My idea of good scale is 5-10 items range - I can get a deal on 10 ovens, 10 dispensers, etc.

That got a bit epic, sorry. I have been thinking about this while traveling this past week and needed to type it out.
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Re: Group buy in Shenzhen?

Postby kdittyr » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:22 pm

I can imagine it is a nightmare. Good luck with it!
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Re: Group buy in Shenzhen?

Postby beth » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:29 pm

It's just common sense.

Cheers.
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Re: Group buy in Shenzhen?

Postby neslekkim » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:38 pm

yes, no problem with this, but as of shipping costs, some guestimates would be nice, but I guess for me, europe is close enough, i guess it will be in the ballpark of what the cost can end up in.
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Group buy in Shenzhen?

Postby TomKeddie » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:29 pm

Ian,

Well spoken and well thought out. As crazy as it sounds, I wish I could be in that alley helping, need to wait until the kids are older.

Packages are definitely the go, will categorize the freight and the packing to a small number of options.

I'm with you on learning Chinese, I had a lot of fun on TaoBao recently but some Chinese would help.

Cheers,
Tom


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Re: Group buy in Shenzhen?

Postby failsafe » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:28 am

Longtime stalker, first time poster.

Just so you know Ian,

I am all for a group buy. I'll purchase whatever package deal you guys work out.
I will agree to whatever payment terms you come up with.
I think Ian's character is well enough known to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks for trying to help out all the small makers. The ones who are trying to build the next big thing on a shoe-string budget in a basement lab.

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Re: Group buy in Shenzhen?

Postby ian » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:58 am

Quick update: I see my 3 weeks in china is now enough, so I am leaving next Tuesday (19th) and will stay until May. That should give plenty of time to work this out, including getting stuff in stock at Seeed. I'll be back here with details probably Thursday, my first full day in China.
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Re: Group buy in Shenzhen?

Postby teletypeguy » Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:37 pm

Hi Ian:

New poster here -- love DP and all that you guys do.

Sounds like you are offshore and perhaps not watching this thread anymore, but what is the chance of there being another group pnp buy? I have almost convinced myself that I need a TM240A (bumping the eos 5d mk III off my wish list for this year).

thx. gil smith
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Re: Group buy in Shenzhen?

Postby neslekkim » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:01 am

any development on this?
Have some cravings ;)
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Re: Group buy in Shenzhen?

Postby mplafleur » Tue May 21, 2013 9:41 am

I'm looking to buy a TM220A PnP. Is there interest in another group buy?
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