matseng wrote:Eagle==Crappy... Well yes, it might be but it's the "industry standard" for hobbyists and smallish companies so I'll stick with it for the time being.
Donno what to say about that, I hear that over and over on sites like DP but I do not feel eagle being standard for anything. Right now when I search for different projects I can say that
- 99% of them provide PDF's (and some of them also PNG/JPG's)
- more then 85% of them are not drawn in eagle (you can see by the quality of the PDF, footprints, schematic...)
- if you look at projects that provide eagle sources you can often notice (in over 10% cases) that they are designed in another application (altium designer, cadence orcad..) and then only the final version of the project is redrawn in eagle (probably 'cause everyone say it's "industry standard")
- if we ignore "here ma, my led is blinking" projects there's equal number of projects source files available in eagle as in kicad (while kicad is unlimited functionality open source piece of crap and eagle is crippled functionality closed source piece of crap where even file formats are regarded as top secret :( )
Of course if we do not ignore "here ma, I blinked the led" projects 99.99% of projects on the net are eagle but I'd say it's "standard for unusable beginner projects" and not "industry standard" :)
Anyhow, one should use what one likes, I used to be very proficient in p-cad some decades ago, if it worked on linux and was not swallowed by other players I'd be probably still be using it today (p-cad 20 years ago worked hell lot better then eagle today), unfortunately, you don't use it -> you lose it apply always, if today I started p-cad I would probably not be able to route a led blinker in few hours :(
matseng wrote:skip the autorouter completely.
I tried "fixed" version of E6 and it's autorouter today and man this is crappy thing :(, proteus ares can eat this for breakfast (and I'm very unsatisfied with how ares autorouter works, it's more/less crap but does save some time)
matseng wrote:But if I was doing EE design for a living ... Altium sure got a lot of nice features..... I wish there was a hobbyist license for it....
of course, they do not consider us important, but using it intermittently for many years I can say the pcb editor / schema capture is same great thing for years, they mostly focus on the fpga bs for version after version and that take up most of the cost. IMO and I might be very very wrong if they sold a "crippled" version that has only pcb & schema capture + autorouter (so without all the fpga crap) they could drop the price to 1000$ for perpetual licence and I'm sure many hobbyists would find that acceptable. I haven't checked cadence's prices recently, orcad used to be top of the line too, might be worth a shot .. their autorouter is best in the business but is iirc too expensive for hobby
What seriously buggs me with altium is windows limitation :( I have to run virtual machine in order to use it and I hate it .. if it was designed in some heavy low level c with winapi call's I'd just be sorry but would not be that pissed as I am 'cause they wrote the darn thing in DELPHI and with freepascal and lazarus and ... they should be able to make it work properly on linux in no time with minimal effort :( or at least make it work properly under wine
Anyhow, I don't see any app being "industry standard" in hobby sphere if we remove the led blinkers, I see kicad being used more and more (I dislike the app as much or even more then eagle but at least it's open and unlimited) and I believe that is good 'cause all technologies I monitored in past decades improved exponentially with adoption ... from java to reprap it's same story, more ppl use it, more ppl get involved, more testing, ideas, faster it gets developped and better it becomes .. compare speed of java today and java 10 years ago, or reprap output today and reprap output just 5 years ago :), hopefully same will happen with kicad. As for the autorouting, I just checked freeroute and it's by order of magnitude better then when I tried it last time... so there's some good work being put into that app..