SMT700 New vision based SMT machine from SMALLSMT

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Re: SMT700 New vision based SMT machine from SMALLSMT

Postby tonnyneoden » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:13 am

Hello Michael,
This is Tonny(Overseas Market Dept.) from Neoden Tech,we are the manufacturer of PNP Machine-TM245P.

It's so strange that we haven't served one customer who's name is Michael,are you sure you have visited us ?
Who is the receiver of your visiting ?
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Re: SMT700 New vision based SMT machine from SMALLSMT

Postby supertronic » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:58 am

Yes I visited you together with Sunny.
The TMP245P is a big improvement against the TM240.
I write a review soon.
Mia knows me too because I was one of the first overseas customers for TM240 machine.

Best regards
Michael
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Re: SMT700 New vision based SMT machine from SMALLSMT

Postby drogo » Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:25 pm

How is it going with the machine? Can I order the machine already? Is there a known lead time for me in the Netherlands?
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Re: SMT700 New vision based SMT machine from SMALLSMT

Postby supertronic » Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:13 am

Hi Drogo,

yes you can order both machines already we planned to ramp up in 08/2015.
The machines have a lead time between 3 and 6 weeks.

Both versions are availiable now.

VP-2000D max. 36 x 8mm feeders, build in tray option, 240 x 270mm working area
VP-2500D max. 51 x 8mm feeders, build in tray option, 360 x 320mm working area
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Re: SMT700 New vision based SMT machine from SMALLSMT

Postby supertronic » Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:32 am

Hi,
I just started a new website for our SMT machines.
There are some things not completed yet but we improve every day.
Feel free to have a look.

www.smallsmt.biz

Best regards
Michael
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Re: SMT700 New vision based SMT machine from SMALLSMT

Postby spoolofwire » Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:18 pm

supertronic wrote:Hi Drogo,

yes you can order both machines already we planned to ramp up in 08/2015.
The machines have a lead time between 3 and 6 weeks.

Both versions are availiable now.

VP-2000D max. 36 x 8mm feeders, build in tray option, 240 x 270mm working area
VP-2500D max. 51 x 8mm feeders, build in tray option, 360 x 320mm working area



You also said in this thread back in Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:46 am

supertronic wrote:Thank you for your long explanation.

The price I mentioned is for a 60 feeder line complete equipped machine meeting CE and EU machine directive and is made in Germany.
The SMT600 is an manufacturing improved design of SMT700 and will have all the features of SMT700 only a different design.
I think about the upgrade parts if it is possible to do.
We will have a range of different equipped machines for lower prices.
But First of all the performance of the high end system must be defined and I asked for the head servos because they are so expensive.
I give you an example: All of the Chinese machines use light sensors for the limit switches (having problems with stray light and changing light conditions).
But the reference need to be measured very accurate because every position on the machine depends on this. You will get feeder errors or misalignment if there are differences in your reference position.
I use expensive swiss limit switches to get a reference position error between +/- 0.01mm.

The pricing for SMT600 isn't fixed depends on configuration and performance!

The SMT500D is at a price of 6800USD for a double head machine having
- 300x250mm board size
- double head
- The machine has 19x 8mm feeder lines and 13 mixed lines or additional 16x 8mm feeder lines.
so total 35x 8mm lines as maximum
- It uses Samsung CP45 nozzles no changer
- 2 pneumatic push feeder to forward the strips independend from the head
- Vision system having 2 bottom cameras with different focal length and one head camera for fiducial alignment and teach in programming
- user definable pickup positions on the machine working area for parts in strips or TQFP
- English PC Software
- Internal motion controller USB connection to the PC


Regards
Michael



So just to clarify initially you were going to build two different machines:

1. SMT500D (which supported 35 8mm feeder lines)
2. SMT600 (which supported 60 8 mm feeder lines)

your machines on your website have changed in name and I'm just trying to understand which machine is which.

or are both machines variants of the SMT500D and you will still have have a 60+ line feed machines in the near future?

Thanks,

-J
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Re: SMT700 New vision based SMT machine from SMALLSMT

Postby supertronic » Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:38 am

Hi,
are both machines variants of the SMT500D and you will still have have a 60+ line feed machines in the near future?


First of all I started the thread to build a new modular machine having vision system, exchangeable feeders and easy to use interface and software.
The production costs for this type of machine are very high and all efforts to find a good production partner in China failed.
So i decided to build a second design named SMT600 having a different construction and less custom parts to build this system in Germany.
But finally the market changes soo much and machines above 10000USD are not easy to sell.
We decided to support our manufacturer to improve their machines and software and now we are general agent for foreign country's.

The naming was changed to
VP-2000D for the small machine
VP-2500D for our improved bigger machine having a better price vs performance value

We provide support and improvements of software and hardware too.

These two machines was planned for entry level before so it's not to much change in our strategy.

In the near future Neoden will sell their quad head vision machine at >= 10000USD having fixed feeders so we can only improve quality and flexibility if we sell a machine above VP-2500D.
But the production costs for our VP-3000D machine are higher so we maybe can't refinance the development.

If you need more than 52 feeder's we can sell a VP-2500D having additional east feeder too adding 27 feeders.

So our plan is to monitor the market and if it improves we sell the VP-3000D.
We have a nice solution now and it's easy to use 2 machines to build a productionline having mor than 100 feeder lines.

Finally I need to say I use our machines for production too and if I was not satisfied I never sell to you.
I know all advantages and problems you receive by using our machines.
We try to improve our machines constantly and provide the updates to you.

So feel free to visit our site and view all the new informations I posted in the past days.
http://www.smallsmt.biz/ home
http://www.smallsmt.biz/vision-placer-vp-2x00d/ Machine introduction
http://www.smallsmt.biz/know-how/ KNOW HOW section

Our next developments are
- vibrational feeders
- software additions to improve the usability
- automatic measurements
- dispenser options
- more feeders

The last sentence is we received a machine having all the options except the exchangeable feeders!

Best regards
Michael
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Re: SMT700 New vision based SMT machine from SMALLSMT

Postby phangmoh » Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:38 am

In the near future Neoden will sell their quad head vision machine at >= 10000USD

I don't think it's nice to speculate the price of a yet to be released machine.

And personally, a competitive and affordable price for a pick and place machine plays an important role for people like us on the forum.
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Re: SMT700 New vision based SMT machine from SMALLSMT

Postby supertronic » Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:29 am

Yes sure the price rating was told to me by Neoden but it may change sure.
But I think it's ok for a quad head machine having 50+ feeders and vision so it's not a bad deal!
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Re: SMT700 New vision based SMT machine from SMALLSMT

Postby JustMe » Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:28 pm

I have seen the new neoden with Vision and conveyer. The price is ok but as of last week they were charging U$60 per feeder!!!!!!!
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Re: SMT700 New vision based SMT machine from SMALLSMT

Postby supertronic » Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:16 am

What's the price now?
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Re: SMT700 New vision based SMT machine from SMALLSMT

Postby JustMe » Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:12 am

7499 usd$ with conveyer 6488 without . In China . No feeders included. Can take 48 feeders.
Price is about 69/79/99 USD per pcs For feeder 12/16/24.
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Re: SMT700 New vision based SMT machine from SMALLSMT

Postby JustMe » Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:29 am

here are some pics
Attachments
IMG_3580.JPG
IMG_3579.JPG
IMG_3576.JPG
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Re: SMT700 New vision based SMT machine from SMALLSMT

Postby phangmoh » Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:21 am

JustMe wrote:Price is about 69/79/99 USD per pcs For feeder 12/16/24.


The good thing about this is the feeder is not fix. You only buy what you need. Along the way, if you need more, then only you add.

I think the new machine is not competing with any of the similar desktop machine, in fact is has venture into other larger machine territory. So, for that price it is still a bargain but probably not so cheap for smaller maker unless you are churning out few hundred boards a month at least.

Saw the very first prototype few months back in flesh!
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Re: SMT700 New vision based SMT machine from SMALLSMT

Postby JustMe » Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:01 am

I agree but I want to see it in action. Every time I went to China they couldn't demonstrate it. I will be back next month to see how good it actually works. The build is solid the feeders are great but I still need to see software and vision in action. I am hoping it delivers. I really want it to be good and get one
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