Hi from SCANALOGIC-2 Makers

The Logic Pirate is a medium speed, low-cost logic analyzer with a USB interface. It can capture up to 256K samples at 20MHz (80MHz with overclock), and is compatible with SUMP logic analyzer client. Get one for $30 at Seeed Studio. Logic Shrimp support available here.

Hi from SCANALOGIC-2 Makers

Postby ikalogic » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:16 am

Hi,

This is Ibrahim KAMAL, from IKALOGIC, who created the SCANALOGIC-2 logic analyzer and signal generator!

I was quite surprised to see a design (logic shrimp) that copies our design that closely.. I would have expected DangerousPrototypes to keep us posted & make sure we're cool about that.. After all this means our design was optimal enough for it to be copied without adding to it!
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Re: Hi from SCANALOGIC-2 Makers

Postby octal » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:21 am

:D
Logic Analyzer == Either local buffer or direct transfer to PC.
Local buffer ==> clock source (quartz, FPGA, ...) + clocked memories (SPI MEMS, PARALLEL MEMS, ....)
Direct Tranfsert to PC ==> Parallel read + USB transfert!!!

If we consider Logic Shrimp a copy of scanalogic, this means there would be 1 logic analyzer in the world!
Logic from Seleae would be a copy from USBee which would be a copy from Cypress Bulk treansfert example (there at least 8 or 9 LA using same cypress chip and design)
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Re: Hi from SCANALOGIC-2 Makers

Postby ikalogic » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:32 am

:D
Trust me, we don't need a definition of what a LA is!

Have you looked at the design for a second?? Even dangerous prototype page says it is inspired from SCANALOGIC-2!

octal wrote:(there at least 8 or 9 LA using same cypress chip and design)

Yes, and indeed those are very close design.

octal wrote:(there at least 8 or 9 LA using same cypress chip and design)

Does all the boards that use the same micro controller are copies?? no, the firmware makes the difference.

octal wrote:(there at least 8 or 9 LA using same cypress chip and design)

Yes, But until now our design was the only one using 4 23K256 SRAM chips!
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Re: Hi from SCANALOGIC-2 Makers

Postby octal » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:41 am

ikalogic wrote::D

octal wrote:(there at least 8 or 9 LA using same cypress chip and design)

Does all the boards that use the same micro controller are copies?? no, the firmware makes the difference.



You are strange ...
You said it :) The firmware make the diff.
Scanalogic vs LogicShrimp have different firmwares, different MCU (hardware), diff USB handling (CDC vs HID), ... for low speeds the RAMs are clocked via PWM instead of the software bitbanging of Scananlogic ... LogicShrimp is SUMP protocol compatible ... and it does not have signal generation possibilities (yet) ...
and Logic Shrimp is OPEN SOURCE :D

Are all these diff not enought for you?
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Re: Hi from SCANALOGIC-2 Makers

Postby ikalogic » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:32 am

octal wrote:You are strange ...

some respect wont harm :)
octal wrote:You said it :) The firmware make the diff.

I was talking about the cypress based solution where the hardware is mainly just a micro controller
octal wrote:Scanalogic vs LogicShrimp have different firmwares, different MCU (hardware), diff USB handling (CDC vs HID), ... for low speeds the RAMs are clocked via PWM instead of the software bitbanging of Scananlogic ... LogicShrimp is SUMP protocol compatible ... and it does not have signal generation possibilities (yet) ...
and Logic Shrimp is OPEN SOURCE :D

Fair enought :) but please take the time to look at our schematic on our website and you will understand better what i mean!
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Re: Hi from SCANALOGIC-2 Makers

Postby octal » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:51 am

@ikalogic,
I own a scanalogic and I use it from time to time. I know its schematics and I understand what you mean.
But this is electronics: A lot of open hardware tools mimics commercial ones using simpler designs, or more complex designs, providing another way to do things using software ... and anybody and any company (including you) take benefits from this Open nature of such products.

btw, I didn't said "You are strange" as an insulte (sorry if it seems as an insult), but I said that because of the change in your orientations.
I know how much your company contributed to open hardware/software movement, and even to got to the scananlogic2, you got a lot of benefit from the feedback of the community and its contribution regarding Scanalogic1.

having Logic Shrimp on the market will never harm Scanalogic. I personally bought Scanalogic (after the Logic Shrimp has been published), mainly because Scanalogic offers a ready to use software. Users will continue buying Scanalogic because of the support they got from the company.
I think having a LogicShrimp is more a luck than a competition. You'll see how users improved the firmware and hadnled all stuff you does on Atmel chips. The good thing is that they don't forbid to you to reuse those techniques and reimplement them in future versions of your design.

This is Open hardware philosophy of existance...
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Re: Hi from SCANALOGIC-2 Makers

Postby ikalogic » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:30 am

octal, Thank you for your explicit reply! now i see things more clearly :)

my colleague Maxime said the same thing to me, but you've shed some light on some convincing points

All the best,
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Re: Hi from SCANALOGIC-2 Makers

Postby ian » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:17 pm

Hi ikalogic,

I'm a big fan of your design, it is neat logic analyzer topology. I thought it would be fun to make an open source serial SRAM LA that works with an open source client. I'm sorry if you feel I stepped on your toes. If scanalogic was an open source project and we had used your firmware, software, or hardware files I would absolutely have checked first. Feel free to pick over our design for details, and if you open source your design we'll give you mad props.
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Re: Hi from SCANALOGIC-2 Makers

Postby ikalogic » Thu May 09, 2013 2:51 pm

I totaly see things differently since my first post here.

I am a young entrepreneur, who acknowledges that he still learns a lot about running a company.

I do now agree that there is nothing wrong, at all, with what DP did/done/does :)

Apologies to Ian, no offense :)

keep the good work!
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