HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron driver

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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby diogoc » Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:39 am

I think it is a clone too.
So it have a PTC sensor?
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby neslekkim » Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:52 am

I don't know what it have, but it's using the exact same Hakko heatingelement. (with integrated sensor)
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby neslekkim » Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:53 am

Is it possible to find a way to detect sensor? not only for this project, but for other projects to, when you have some unknown sensor, how to find out what it is?
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby diogoc » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:26 am

The thermocouple generates a voltage, so connecting a voltmeter in the scale of milivolts, the voltage increases with temperature.
If not, it is a ntc or a ptc. Both changes its resistance with the temperature. The ntc decreases it resistance with the increase of temperature, and the ptc is the opposite. To determine if it is a pt100, pt50... depends the resistance at 0ºC.
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby arhi » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:45 am

is not that simple, some RTD's (RTD == resistance temperature detector) also generate small voltage when heated, heater generate small voltage when heated etc etc .. so it's not that simple ... you need to both measure resistance and voltage at known temperatures, to be sure you need to measure 0C, 25C and 100C to get any idea of what the sensor is. TC is easiest to check, use any thermometer that uses TC as a sensor, attach "unknown sensor" to it and see if the displayed temperature makes sense (you need to measure temp that's not your room temp, so 0C and 100C are ideal here) if you get exact values it's a TC :)

for soldering, almost noone uses NTC as NTC don't go that high (usually they go up to 300C, eventually few of them can go up to 350C but that's a max, for soldering you need 400-450 so NTC ain't gonna work), so resistive sensors are all PTC type. Some (like weller) use PT100 and PT100 combinations (for e.g. you have wellers with PT20 but that's only 5 pt100 in parallel, you have some others with PT1000 and that's again 10 PT100 in series etc etc), and some others use some "custom" PTC sensors ... for e.g. HAKKO and it's clones use PTC sensor that does not fit any of the standards I know of... what is important about this sensors is that they have U shaped curve so a same resistance can be on 2 very different temperatures so measuring resistance at room temperature ain't really useful, these sensors show valid (fairly linear) data only after 100C and that's why they are chosen for the soldering iron as below 100C you really don't care what the temp is :D
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby Gargamel » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:53 am

What about this:
Hot Air Desoldering Gun for SAIKE machine 852D+ 898D Replacement

Is possible to handle this?

Of course,
speed control of the motor must still resolve.
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby matseng » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:08 am

arhi wrote:for e.g. you have wellers with PT20 but that's only 5 pt100 in parallel


What would the reason be for anyone put 5 pt100's in parallel? The resistance change per degree would just be five times less making it harder to get an exact reading plus it would cost a bundle. Or is there something smart that I can't think of?
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby arhi » Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:54 pm

matseng wrote:
arhi wrote:for e.g. you have wellers with PT20 but that's only 5 pt100 in parallel


What would the reason be for anyone put 5 pt100's in parallel? The resistance change per degree would just be five times less making it harder to get an exact reading plus it would cost a bundle. Or is there something smart that I can't think of?


No clue why they do it. I for e.g. often use 2 or even 3 NTC's on my extruders on 3d printers to increase precision as I mount them in holes around the nozzle mouth so I get better temperature averaging as one side of the nozzle can be hotter then rest of the nozzle due to not 100% homogeneous material, difference of thickness (especially when you drill a hole for ntc), position of the heat element, position of the fan etc etc .. it's especially important with aluminium nozzles for e.g. as it has fairly low thermal mass, with copper/brass nozzle's it's not that important due to much higher thermal mass of the nozzle ...

Maybe they do it for a same reason on the weller PT20 or maybe there's a manufacturing reason ... or there's always a possibility person who told me that he opened the weller and seen 5 PT100's inside was lying to me as I have not seen that myself .. anyhow I guess it's easier to put 5 sensors on heater and get avg temperature then to put one "precisely on the hottest part of the heater" ... weller is one of the companies that really try to put sensor "in right place" so .. they probably have their reasons..
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby arakis » Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:25 am

Gargamel wrote:What about this:
Hot Air Desoldering Gun for SAIKE machine 852D+ 898D Replacement

Is possible to handle this?

Of course,
speed control of the motor must still resolve.


I have no clue, if the heater is powered by 24V AC then it would probably work. My handle uses a k-type so the sensor is supported as well.
best regards FIlip.
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby Gargamel » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:54 am

arakis wrote:
Gargamel wrote:What about this:
Hot Air Desoldering Gun for SAIKE machine 852D+ 898D Replacement

Is possible to handle this?

Of course,
speed control of the motor must still resolve.


I have no clue, if the heater is powered by 24V AC then it would probably work. My handle uses a k-type so the sensor is supported as well.


I researched a bit:
http://aes.at.ua/publ/pajalnye_stancii/ ... 37-1-0-252

PIC 18f2550 has two PWM outputs,
and could handle both control.

With certain modifications schemes and programs, possibly.

In the first post would not let me copy the link, this I thought:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280837985023?ss ... 1436.l2649

So when combine both handles, we get this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/120755898504?ss ... 1436.l2649

;->>
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby arhi » Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:08 am

18f2550 can easily control both soldering iron + heat gun, it can control even 2 irons + heat gun without a problem ... I didn't design it in 'cause I never needed it. I'm not sure modding this board will be very good idea, I think it's much simpler to do it from scratch, it's not a problematic thing to design.
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby TimLaux » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:44 pm

Hi everyone,

I'm a bit confused by all of the documentation.

To initially program the chip, do you use USB or the ICSP header?

Diolan is used in conjunction with USB right? But if I was to build one of these from scratch, when I flash the firmware for the first time, how do I do it? Using what method?

Thanks.
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby arakis » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:42 am

TimLaux wrote:Hi everyone,

I'm a bit confused by all of the documentation.

To initially program the chip, do you use USB or the ICSP header?

Diolan is used in conjunction with USB right? But if I was to build one of these from scratch, when I flash the firmware for the first time, how do I do it? Using what method?

Thanks.


Sorry about the documentation mess up, I'll fix it up in a few days..

You'd need to flash the hex file onto your PIC the first time you use it...any PIC programmer that supports pic18F2550 will work, which is basically any PIC programmer out there...You can find the hex file in arhi's repository, I think it's liked in the OP..

P.S. Since we are only selling the boards, everyone that is interested in this board will have to program the PIC themselves...
best regards FIlip.
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby diogoc » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:09 am

It is possible to adapt this driver to a Hakko T12 tip?
was good because it has the sensor and heater inside the tip, but from what I know the thermocouple is in series with the heater. This complicates the temperature measurement.
Has anyone tried?
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby arhi » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:17 am

do you have any data on the T12? Schematic? Can you share?
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