HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron driver

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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby arhi » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:05 pm

3310 display was on my very first version (4+ years old) but I decided to go with big 16x2 lcd as nokia display was too small for my liking .. (even with huge numbers in the middle showing temperature) so I dropped it .. I do use nokia display for my hot plate (heated bed for reprap) project :D but that one I want to replace with 320x200 big color tft :)

Ian, why do you think it is "dangerous" to sell these? I never planned to but I don't see why wouldn't someone do it.. It's "universal soldering iron driver" - works with irons that have thermocouple and PTC sensor. I personally never seen an iron with thermal control that has any different type of sensor so this basically covers all of them. Weller for e.g. use PT20 (ptc), I seen some that use PT100 (again PTC). The software/hardware is not copied from some brand name controller ... so you can make and sell them without a problem imho :). Not sure many ppl would by them ... probably more would be interested in cheap pcb's :)

Wrt autodetection, it's actually fairly hard as these PTC's also give out some temeperature, anyhow what you can do is
- check ambient temp
- read iron as K-type, if temp is between -5 and 5C the probe is probably k-type
- read iron as PTC, if temp reads close to ambient temp, the probe is probably PTC
- heat iron for 10sec
- read iron as K-type, if temp show 20+C the probe is 99% Ktype
- read iron as PTC, if temp reads 40+C the proble is 99% PTC

Now, as I mentioned already, HAKKO, SOLOMON, Weller .. they all have different connectors so you do not expect ppl to just switch irons here during work. That's why I think jumpers are "good enough".

Another thing, you really need the DCDC on board as most transformers from old irons come with single 24VAC supply. 7805 will die out in a heart beat..
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby arhi » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:45 pm

Here's the latest schematic. The pcb ain't over yet as I'm waiting for the L1 and L2 to arrive. No idea what package my local store have them in so I'll check them in the morning to c what package they come in so I'll finish PCB .. I'll also test the design in the morning when L1 and L2 arrive :) so I'll know if 24VAC will power pic properly.

I think it is obvious but if you use DCDC part of the page4 you need to not put 7805 on board :) (use D5 and all capacitors with DCDC too) and ifd you have separate low voltage AC (6-10V) then you can use 7805 but then don't populate U7, R25-29, L1, L2, D7, C14, C15.
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby Sjaak » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:48 pm

Those Nokia LCD use SPI with some extra line. A 2x16 LCD would use 6 lines so you could use the nokia display instead. Perhaps ian should also.

BTW 3$ is damn cheap, where are you from?
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby arhi » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:50 pm

There is MCLR pin free (digital in or RESET pin) .. I didn't want to add reset pin so I left it free (mclr disabled in firmware), RB4-RB7 are free I had idea to use RX/TX on a header to be able to talk to pc but after a lot of thinking I don't see what would a connection between a pc and a soldering iron be used for. So here you basically have 2 analog ports that could be used to read local temp from analog sensor (NTC or PTC or some of those xmV/C units ..) .. you could add a pot to one of them and use it instead of encoder ... anyhow .. I didn't find any real use for them ..
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby arhi » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:56 pm

Sjaak wrote:Those Nokia LCD use SPI with some extra line. A 2x16 LCD would use 6 lines so you could use the nokia display instead. Perhaps ian should also.


yes, they are 4 wire spi, very easy to control, automatic contrast etc etc .. very nice for projects. For e.g. my 5channel thermostat uses it. But it's a soldering iron controller - where did the issue with "enough pins" came to be ? Unless you are using some super small 8pin mcu you have enough pins to drive regular 4bit 16x2 lcd :D

[qutoe]BTW 3$ is damn cheap, where are you from?[/quote]
he's from same place I am and I don't see them locally for 3$ he'll have to let me on a secret where he gets them. I purchase second hand nokia phones and extract screens from them, but I usually have to pay around 5eur for the second hand phone, that's almost double compared to 3$ .. on the other hand, there are some flee markets around Belgrade where you can get stuff dirt cheap if you have time and will to dig trough boxes :)
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby ian » Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:35 am

I only said dangerous because there is AC voltage and hot pointy things. I think this is a great DIY through-hole free PCB project, but I hesitate to sell it as kit or assembled because if someone gets hurt I could be liable.

I will definitely use the MC3406, I have a bunch in DIP here. After you test of course :)

Thanks for the heads up on the iron pinout. I guess I assumed it was consistent. I will test my Aoyue as you described.
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby ian » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:13 am

Updated eagle schematic. Pretty messy, I really should be working on other things instead of a fun project :) I removed the 7805 totally.
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby ian » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:53 am

middle pin is ESD/EARTH, 2 on each sides should have 12R on heater and much more (if iron is heated up) on the sensor. Don't measure cold iron as you will get wrong results :D (on my iron's cable left 2 are sensor and right2 are heater), sensor goes from few R cold to ~50R hot, heater is few R cold and as soon as it gets heated it's 12R and holding that resistance.


I tested the Aoyue pencil and got different results.

The "left side", looking at the pencil cable as shown in the drawing, was 24ohms cold and hot. The right side was 2.5 cold and 6.5 (and rapidly dropping) after it was heated. I guess left (labeled 1/2) are heater, and right (4/5) is the temperature sensor.
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby Milarepa » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:38 am

I have a couple of broken JBC soldering stations I got for a few bucks at ebay, and this seems to me like it's worth an attempt of resurrection.
Why not make a kickstarter project or something out of this? I'd buy two!
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby arakis » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:04 am

IMAG_0092.jpg
this is the chassis jack of the solomon pencil I use(the one not conected to the pencil)
*offtopic

arhi, I get them from a local ebay type site, limundo, its kind of a risk, I buy broken, non working phones, for around 2e-4e, and all of the ones I bought so far, around 4 of them had working lcds, from time to time there are even adds for lcds only that also go around 2-3e, you can even get better deals if you buy 2-3 at once, the trick is to buy from the seller that is at the same location as you so you dont have to pay the shipping fee witch is around 2e. also any local mobile phone servis will sell them for around 3e..


p.s. also to repeat my request to route all leftover port pins of a mcu, for future development, like adding more buttons, leds....
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this is the actual jack of the solomon pencil
best regards FIlip.
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby tinito » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:59 am

ian wrote:I only said dangerous because there is AC voltage and hot pointy things. I think this is a great DIY through-hole free PCB project, but I hesitate to sell it as kit or assembled because if someone gets hurt I could be liable.


Ian, there are laws (international?) about selling prototypes or are you just applying "good sense" to chose what is sellable and what not? No CE/FCC marking needed if you say it is a prototype?

[sorry for the little OT]
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby arhi » Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:38 pm

@arakis, hm I never seen them on limundo for 2-3$ I usually have to pay ~5E for the phone :) but I did few times purchased bulk (20 phones for 10eur :D )

taking extra 4 ports on the 16F690 ain't really worth it but could be done, the Ian's version with 24F makes more sense but I still don't think it's wort using 24F for a project like this one.

@ian, yes removing 7805 completely makes all kind of sense but since you still want all the capacitors :D (I love caps) 3pins 7805 works with makes sense and not mess up the board ... also there are those 3pin dcdc converters we mentioned in other thread that could be used...

wrt pins, 24R cold/hot is your heater I'd say. Especially if it is holding same resistance while heating the iron. But that means that you have 24W iron and not 48W as most hakko and aoyue pencils I seen. The 6.5R and dropping fast is weird .. that might be thermocouple!! that's weird as I never seen aoyue with thermocouple but everything is possible. Check it out as thermocouple, if you have temperature probe input on your multimeter or if you have k-type input on anything else .. if you don't have thermocouple input just connect it to a scope or multimeter and heat it up and you should see a rise in voltage when you heat it up.

@tinito, when you are selling a kit there's always a possibility some idiot will hurt himself and sue you. You are basically safe if you put visible "use on your own risk etc etc" but if an idiot sue you there are expenses and all the hassle and ... donno, ppl might not thing it's worth it. I know if DP had similar project I'd purchase it and would not develop my own :D but ..
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby arhi » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:25 pm

Ian, one hint. I use a "cable" fuse holder with 2.2A fuse on my 24VAC input into iron. Maybe it would be a good idea to add a fuse holder on the pcb too ? (I used pcb mounted fuse holder on my initial board)
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby arhi » Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:50 pm

I am sorry to inform but originally designed 5V DCDC don't work!!! No idea what I did wrong but it has to be checked out by someone who has a clue how those things work :)

When I assembled the circuit according to schematic the output was 5V. Then I attached the dummy load and kaboom, below 50mA it works but as soon as you start going over 50mA the thing start falling apart, voltage goes to few hundred millivolts and the whole thing crash .. The inductors (220uF and 1uF) are in same package as 1/4W resistor and they get HOT!!! ?! I never tried to load it with more then 250mA.

Here's the schematic I'm using, whatever's wrong - I have no clue so, thy who has experience, feel free to point to my mistakes and redesign the bloody thing. Note that input comes from 24VAC rectified so it will be 34VDC on the input. sqkybeaver mentioned that
sqkybeaver wrote:the mc34063 has been around for a long time and is super easy to work with
so, please rescue me :D I have no clue how to design this :D and why the hack are these inductors getting so hot at 250mA draw. So the summarize, my DCDC is shit, we need someone who knows how to design
30-40VDC input (34VDC optimal) and 5VDC output with 300-400mA output (250mA optimal) with mc34063 :)

the current schematic that does not work (not even with 10-20VDC input and 100mA draw) is attached
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Re: HAKKO (907ESD) and SOLOMON (SL-10/30) soldering iron dri

Postby arhi » Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:58 pm

After I add 100uF + 1000uF after L2 (forgot to add those - idiot) I get while input voltage is 12VDC ~5V on the output while drawing 250mA but the L1 gets HOOOOOOOT!!! very fast, seriously .. can't touch it .. moving input over 12V gets thing to collapse very quickly :( (and we need it to power from 35V)

I am now using this: http://dics.voicecontrol.ro/tutorials/mc34063/

might get better results, will try that one now .. not sure what Lmin means .. can I use 220uH if it states Lmin = 75uH ? .. will have to read that datasheet from top to bottom now :(
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