Really universal soldering controller

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Re: Really universal soldering controller

Postby GuruMeditation » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:37 am

minkok wrote:Soon or late you need to check somehow your handle. Do you see some other options to fix it without that?


I will use the three data points I mentioned earlier.

minkok wrote:You guess that your handle cannot work and you do vast amount of job to fix something without knowing if is it ok?


The handles are brand new and pass the resistance tests recommended by the manufacturer and I'm sure they work. I am also 100% confident that given the correct parameters, the UniSolder 5.2 can drive them.

minkok wrote:Let say you open sparkybgs code and even you would understand all of it, how could you continue, without checking?


I'm not against checking. I'd just prefer a better understanding of the logic and values before I do anything even remotely risky.

minkok wrote: I don't want to trust me just like that, do your job as you think is right , I just try to save you a big work for nothing. And about "suck it and see" method - may be is a common practice in you place, but not all over the world.


I'm sorry if I get this wrong but it would seem that your understanding of the logic behind this project is no better than mine is right now. I see yours as the "suck it and see", the just plug it in and it'll be fine approach.

If I am wrong and you do have a grasp of c1 and everything else, please PLEASE explain it to me!

I have already learnt a few things from the code that I didn't know. I now understand that the only section of the waveshaping code of note for these tips is the damping section and whilst interesting doesn't seem directly related to the task at hand.

minkok wrote:If you cannot afford to buy expensive thermocouple as you mention before and don't want to use, what is under your hand, what you are going to do!


I will do the best I can with what I have that works. The meter + thermocouple is a BAD idea it will not work for this use. They are NOT designed for spot temperatures, where just a spot (the iron tip) is heated as not all spots on the exterior have the same resistance to heat.

Apply the tip to one point and it will read 110c, to another point- 70c another -150c. With readings that erratic it is impossible to use.

They ARE designed to be strapped to a much larger surface area where differences in the transmission rates even out.

So its not a matter of don't want to use. It's a matter of it being useless as are pretty much all of the cheaper solutions.

If I have an understanding of the logic, a good set of starting points for my values and my three test points I am hopeful that I can produce something workable.
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Re: Really universal soldering controller

Postby NECHTO » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:55 am

afedorov wrote:NECHTO,
Display should have 128x64 resolution and be based on SSD1306 controller. Sellers usually declare these important parameters.
Your displays are based on the SH1106 controller, I suppose.


Yes, I understand - Thank you!
But to avoid such problems, I decided to experiment and bought 3 different. links to lots below:
1) 1.3 inch 30PIN White OLED LCD Screen SSD1306 Drive IC 128*64 https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/1-3-inch-30PIN-Yellow-OLED-LCD-Screen-SSD1306-Drive-IC-128-64/1876149443.html?spm=a2g0v.10010108.1000016.1.5a6ed45fozqd67&isOrigTitle=true
2) 1.3 inch OLED LCD Blue Screen SSD1106 Drive IC 128*64 8 bit https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/1-3-inch-Blue-OLED-LCD-Screen-SH1106-Drive-IC-128-64/1876154456.html?spm=a2g0v.10010108.1000016.1.3ddcc2b0IedTSU&isOrigTitle=true
3) 1.3 inch 30PIN 8Bit Display White OLED Screen SH1106 Drive IC 128*64 SPI I2C Interface. https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/1-3-inch-30PIN-8Bit-White-OLED-Display-Screen-SSD1306-Drive-IC-128-64-SPI-I2C/2038791274.html?spm=a2g0v.10010108.1000016.1.1053b5b3Q8DBZO&isOrigTitle=true

Means display number 1 supposed to work.
Maybe the seller made a mistake? or not correctly describe the lot? so we need only SSD1306 controller
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Re: Really universal soldering controller

Postby afedorov » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:46 am

NECHTO wrote:Maybe the seller made a mistake? or not correctly describe the lot? so we need only SSD1306 controller

Yesterday, I've checked aliexpress for some random lots with 1.3" OLED displays and in comments some people mention, that the controller is SH1106, though SSD1306 declared in lot description.
I'm pretty sure all of your 1.3" displays have the same controller, as the picture they show basically the same.
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Re: Really universal soldering controller

Postby SZ64 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:32 am

Here are a few pictures of my working 1.3" SSD1306.
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OLED.JPG
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Re: Really universal soldering controller

Postby minkok » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:47 pm

GuruMeditation wrote:I'm sorry if I get this wrong but it would seem that your understanding of the logic behind this project is no better than mine is right now. I see yours as the "suck it and see", the just plug it in and it'll be fine approach.
...
I will do the best I can with what I have that works. The meter + thermocouple is a BAD idea it will not work for this use. They are NOT designed for spot temperatures, where just a spot (the iron tip) is heated as not all spots on the exterior have the same resistance to heat.

Apply the tip to one point and it will read 110c, to another point- 70c another -150c. With readings that erratic it is impossible to use.

They ARE designed to be strapped to a much larger surface area where differences in the transmission rates even out.

So its not a matter of don't want to use. It's a matter of it being useless as are pretty much all of the cheaper solutions.

If I have an understanding of the logic, a good set of starting points for my values and my three test points I am hopeful that I can produce something workable.


Have you tried at least ones to help to some other else? If you do, I don't think that you will, explain please your method.
And about the cheap thermocouple, it gives you enough correctness if you are able to use it, but it is based on experience. If you don't know how, is better to ask. As I can see, you know everything, why you ask for a help? Anyway I am not going to spend my time with no sense dispute, or to try to help to better understanding unisolder project guy. From now on I will ignore all you publications, just jump over them. Please do not address to me any also.
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Re: Really universal soldering controller

Postby GuruMeditation » Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:44 pm

Just to make a fool out of myself, I will make my first pass notes of the code available here.

My first observation is that the iron parameters as found in iron.c fall into three categories.
System.
Temperature.
Power.

System :
In system we have the ID and Type parameters. The ID being the hex values corresponding to the iron id resistor values used.
Type seems to have 2 variants, TC (value 1) and PTC (value 2).

Temperature :
Here we have a longer list of parameters :
Gain
HRCompCurrent
Offset
c0 through c9
WSLength

Power :
Hchannel
Schannel
CBandA
CBandB
CurrentA
CurrentB
PID_Dgain
PID_KP
PID_KI
PID_OVSGain
PID_PMAX
PID_Pnom


My starting point is the temperature calculation as it seems a logical place to start before we go pumping power in. In stepping through the code I think that the waveshaping section can safely be ignored for now as it looks like it only operates on data from the ADC and does not seem to have any inputs that are fed from the iron profile.

I next turned my attention to what looked like the next most complicated section of code - the polynomial calculation. I was fully expecting a level of math that I cannot currently comprehend. Imagine my surprise when I found this :
Code: Select all
//T = C0 + C1 * X + c2 * X^2 + C3 * X^3 + ... + C9 * X^9

Which, if all your iron needs is a c1 value reduces to :
Code: Select all
//T = C1 * X

A simple multiplier. This means that for testing purposes it it probably best to start with a larger c1 than is really called for as higher c1 multipliers result in higher calculated temperatures and should result in undershoot.

This brings me to my current sticking point. I am fairy sure that :
Code: Select all
w -= ((((INT32)IC->Gain * (INT32)IC->HRCompCurrent * 20070L) >> 15) * (INT32)(PV->HRAvg >> AVG)) >> 11;

is where the compensation for the tip resistance is calculated and if true would mean that I need to re-think my starting values of Gain and HRCompCurrent for the T30.

I understand that for TC types, the reading generated is in milivolts and I would expect the drop over the 8Ohm T15 to be lower than the drop over the 12Ohm T30. What I have yet to understand is how Gain and HRCompCurrent are calculated so as to compensate for this.

It could be as simple as needing to calculate an offset value though the only iron profiles that currently use offset values are PTC not TC so I'm still investigating Gain and HRCompCurrent.

C/C++ are not my strongest of suits so if anyone spots any errors in my interpretation of the code please let me know.
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Re: Really universal soldering controller

Postby GuruMeditation » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:56 am

I am a MORON!

As the borg would say - resistance is futile.

TC Irons don't use resistance in the temperature reading. When power is cut to the iron, the sensor generates a tiny amount of electricity that is directly related to it's temperature at the time.

DOH!!!

I needed to read this :
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=2457&p=50627#p50627

Resistance should only come into play in the power calculations.
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Re: Really universal soldering controller

Postby DinikS » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:15 am

Hi guys,
Finally I've got the touching sensor PCBs on Friday and already tried it but it was some difficulties.
It worked great on table but when I connected its inputs to stand plate the UniSolder's behaviour was unstable. Actually it works good when the soldering iron was put on stand, the temperature decreased as it should but when the soldering iron has been taking out from the stand, the temperature was growing slowly and not reached the set temperature. The touching sensor is so sensitive! The touching sensor even reacted to the touch by hand to the stand plate.
I found out that transistor is not completely closing up when it connected to the massive aluminium plate on the stand. I connected it through diode and now it works great. I do not know may be there is another solution?
Here it is pictures and video. Sorry again for pictures and video quality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn3PpRYoZTU
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P70812-212611.jpg
sensor PCB v.1.0
P70812-213300.jpg
connected through a diode
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Re: Really universal soldering controller

Postby minkok » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:04 am

DinikS wrote:Hi guys again, I want to warn you DO NOT change JBC cartridges in hot, switch off the station before. I had a magic smoke from Q2 when I changed cartrige one to another on T245 handle. Now the station works only with T210 JBC handle. If I connect T245 the Q2 heats very much I think I should exchange it.


Hello DinikS and all other guys, who met a Q2 fried. To me happened also, but not on connecting cartridge and by working with more powerful one. In a minute after switching on, the time I am working, suddenly saw a white -red tip, disappointed.
Q2 cannot dissipate the power consuming from the tip even the good specs it has. We need a solution. Any way I replaced Q2 with Q8, I do not use it, the time I order some mosfets for checking. Happy working.
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Re: Really universal soldering controller

Postby minkok » Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:36 am

DinikS wrote:Hi guys,
Finally I've got the touching sensor PCBs on Friday and already tried it but it was some difficulties.
It worked great on table but when I connected its inputs to stand plate the UniSolder's behaviour was unstable. Actually it works good when the soldering iron was put on stand, the temperature decreased as it should but when the soldering iron has been taking out from the stand, the temperature was growing slowly and not reached the set temperature. The touching sensor is so sensitive! The touching sensor even reacted to the touch by hand to the stand plate.
I found out that transistor is not completely closing up when it connected to the massive aluminium plate on the stand. I connected it through diode and now it works great. I do not know may be there is another solution?
Here it is pictures and video. Sorry again for pictures and video quality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn3PpRYoZTU


Hello again DinikS, You've got something strange. My sensing board is made from the parts as the schematics I publish. And sensing
inputs cannot react on hand touch - you need to check 10 MOhm R connection, it keeps input tight to High to prevent that. When measure the inputs by multimeter, it has to show b/n 1.7V-2.2V. Where you connected the diode please? - it is very important.
Last edited by minkok on Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Really universal soldering controller

Postby DinikS » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:25 am

minkok wrote:
Hello again DinikS, You'v got something strange. My sensing board is made from the parts as the schematics I publish. And sensing
inputs cannot react on hand touch - you need to check 10 MOhm R connection, it keeps input tight to High to prevent that. When measure the inputs by multimeter, it has to show b/n 1.7V-2.2V. Where you connected the diode please? - it is very important.

Hi Minkok,
At the first when I had problem I've checked resistors and they are 10 Mohm but not measure inputs.
The diod was connected Anode to the inputs of cd4001 Cathode to the metal plate of soldering holder.
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Re: Really universal soldering controller

Postby minkok » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:39 am

DinikS wrote:Hi Minkok,
At the first when I had problem I've checked resistors and they are 10 Mohm but not measure inputs.
The diod was connected Anode to the inputs of cd4001 Cathode to the metal plate of soldering holder.


You have to remove the diode, it dramatically decrease the input resistant of the schematics, if you remove the diode, input resistant is around some M ohms and does not influence over shunt - for measuring mosfet current. Guess if it is connected.
Please, resolder 10Mohm R and if you cannot reach 2.2V on inputs, add in parallel another one 10Mohm - all together are 5 Mohm.
And please, give the result. Thank you.
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Re: Really universal soldering controller

Postby DinikS » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:04 am

minkok wrote:You have to remove the diode, it dramatically decrease the input resistant of the schematics, if you remove the diode, input resistant is around some M ohms and does not influence over shunt - for measuring mosfet current. Guess if it is connected.
Please, resolder 10Mohm R and if you cannot reach 2.2V on inputs, add in parallel another one 10Mohm - all together are 5 Mohm.
And please, give the result. Thank you.

Thank you very much for help and support. I will do that when I get home. Now I'm in a business trip.
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Re: Really universal soldering controller

Postby minkok » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:04 am

DinikS wrote:Hi Minkok,
At the first when I had problem I've checked resistors and they are 10 Mohm but not measure inputs.
The diod was connected Anode to the inputs of cd4001 Cathode to the metal plate of soldering holder.


I am sorry for the mistake I made about the diode connection, but my mind is somewhere else , if diode is a schottky with voltage drop less than 0.5V and is connected in serial to IC input, there is no any problem, but is much better with out it, if the schematics is ok.
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Re: Really universal soldering controller

Postby minkok » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:11 am

Hello, If someone want to build touch sensing circuit for uni solder ,can use DinikS board, nice work, Thank you Dinik.
Please I want to share some details.
After soldering all components, clean the board with isopropyl alcohol to keep its high resistance.
Connect it first to laboratory power supply + 3.3v, to check workability and main point voltages.
You should have on pins 1-2 more than 1.7v, on the same state pin3 - 0v. When connect pins 1-2 to GND, pin3 state + 3.3V
The same way, check the other channel.
If that is ok, you can connect the board to the J5 of uni solder + 3.3V, GND and SLEEP and it should work properly.
I made a video for a proper working circuit, voltage is measured b/n tip of T245 and tip holder plate ( in my case both plates are connected together ) and it is 2V.
link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ybom65r4dco4e ... g.3gp?dl=0
Thank you.
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