High speed Pick & Place for $3600

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High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Postby matseng » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:29 pm

Now this is something I very well could consider purchasing.

A tabletop dual head P&P for about USD 3600 that does down to 0402 and more than 6000 parts per hour. 15 tape autofeeders are included....

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=19322348120

TM220A.jpg
6000cps P&P for $3600
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Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Postby sqkybeaver » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:32 am

who do i have to bribe to get one?
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Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Postby matseng » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:28 am

sqkybeaver wrote:who do i have to bribe to get one?

Your wife or your banker depending on who is managing your wallet :-)

It doesn't have any vision system, but for passives and soic's that should be ok... Compressors and vacuum units plus the software is included.
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Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Postby bearmos » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:30 am

matseng wrote:Your wife or your banker depending on who is managing your wallet :-)

This seems to be universal ;-)

The head on this is really interesting (molded plastic?).
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Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Postby ian » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:33 am

Wow! Are you going to try it? Usually I can find someone's forum post on the cheap low-end stuff (reflow ovens, etc). I don't see anything for this.
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Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Postby tayken » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:45 am

Funny thing is it shows up as 22800 yen on my browser, are we certain that the prices are in yuans? If it is yen, it is nothing!
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Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Postby sqkybeaver » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:32 am

tayken wrote:Funny thing is it shows up as 22800 yen on my browser, are we certain that the prices are in yuans? If it is yen, it is nothing!


if it can be bought for 22k yen , ill send someone 44k yen and they can keep one!
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Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Postby sam512bb » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:53 pm

Thanks for posting!

This looks like a great product for us to use for prototyping and/or small test boards (i.e. < 10 or so pieces). I have been looking for a while and the closest I could find was the one from Madell... but it is priced at $7500 on Ebay...It looks like a solid unit and it does include optical positioning/training. Three are a few u-tube videos of it working, but it is pricey for our needs. The unit posted here is certainly within our budget... Does anyone have a link to the manufacturer site, etc? The link presented is not in English and so it makes it tough for me to determine how to order and/or to obtain more info.

Cheers,

Sam
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Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Postby bearmos » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:36 pm

Hi Sam, welcome to DP!

sam512bb wrote:The link presented is not in English and so it makes it tough for me to determine how to order and/or to obtain more info.


taobao is...special...

From what I understand, you'll have to buy through an importer (and use a translator to read the product page). Google translate didn't seem to do very well when I tried it, though.

Here's some background/experiences with taobao (I don't have any first hand):
* DP intro
* matseng's orignal post
* DP's experience with taobao

I realize that doesn't help too much, but at least you'll get an idea of how to go about buying one.
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Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Postby Royce » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:24 pm

This is quite an interesting product!

Sam, if you do buy one, please let us know how it works!

Looking at the photograph, however, I see steppers and belts and other relatively mundane equipment. Every hobby PnP I have ever seen appeared to be constructed similarly but was far, far slower than this device. What's the secret sauce to such speed?
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Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Postby Sjaak » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:32 pm

I dunno if you want to purchase such an expense through taobao :) One of the downsides is many photos and datasheets are not right or optimistic :D However some taobao agents offer the service to check the goods and email you pictures of what they receive from the seller. Prolly they cant check if the machine is working as you expect it :) Please

For translating I personally use chrome as it happens on the fly.
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Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Postby sam512bb » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:14 pm

bearmos wrote:Hi Sam, welcome to DP!

sam512bb wrote:The link presented is not in English and so it makes it tough for me to determine how to order and/or to obtain more info.


taobao is...special...

From what I understand, you'll have to buy through an importer (and use a translator to read the product page). Google translate didn't seem to do very well when I tried it, though.

Here's some background/experiences with taobao (I don't have any first hand):
* DP intro
* matseng's orignal post
* DP's experience with taobao

I realize that doesn't help too much, but at least you'll get an idea of how to go about buying one.


Good day Bearmos,

Thanks for the info and links. This helps a lot.

Most appreciated!

Cheers,

Sam
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Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Postby sam512bb » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:22 pm

Royce wrote:This is quite an interesting product!

Sam, if you do buy one, please let us know how it works!

Looking at the photograph, however, I see steppers and belts and other relatively mundane equipment. Every hobby PnP I have ever seen appeared to be constructed similarly but was far, far slower than this device. What's the secret sauce to such speed?


Good day Royce,

Indeed if I move forward on this I will post my experience. Like I said I am still deciding what to do. Although I have found a few firms here in Canada that specialize in low volume assembly and pricing/delivery is not too bad. Interestingly, these firms usually have access or have factories in China for assembly... so if the volumes are at a certain level or larger, then the kit is sent to their overseas factory... Locally (i.e. in my City), the cost for low volume assembly is quite high to the point where I can buy the Madell unit for less than two low volume assembly runs done here...hence the reason I am exploring my options...

As for this device's speed? ... Indeed 6000 cph seems pretty high... the Madel unit quotes 1800 cph

Cheers,

Sam
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Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Postby bearmos » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:48 pm

sam512bb wrote:Thanks for the info and links. This helps a lot.Most appreciated!

No problem! I'm glad it helped.

To put the rest of this post in context - I'm definitely not trying to talk you out of this. . .

sam512bb wrote:the cost for low volume assembly is quite high to the point where I can buy the Madell unit for less than two low volume assembly runs done here...hence the reason I am exploring my options...

You probably already realize this, but do factor in your time paying the PCB populating learning curve. Most of the setup fees the pro shops are quoting are NRE (usually a few hundred for a local board shop and a few hundred for SMD stencils/tooling/programming, etc). The small DIY-ish crowd can certainly get stencils made less expensively, but it's definitely low volume.

If you search for rsdio and PnP in this forum, you'll probably find some earlier discussions on PnP in-house assembly vs electronic contract manufacturers (ECM's). The consensus is, if you're being paid engineering wages for your time, it's probably wise to get an ECM to do the work for you since you'll wind up with a better quality product earlier and (depending on the quality of the ECM) much less of a headache. I agree with this for medium and high volumes. However, if you're doing "high mix / low volume", it'll probably be extremely hard to justify the cost of sending something out of house to be made - unless you've already worked the expense into the contract (if it's contract work).

All that being said - I certainly wouldn't mind having a PnP sitting on one of my benches/floor ;-)

Lots to consider..
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Re: High speed Pick & Place for $3600

Postby kineteka » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:04 am

We are seriously considering importing these and reselling them.

How many of you guys would be interested?

-Mike
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