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Topic: A ginuae pig once again. I Just bought a new pick and place (Read 11472 times) previous topic - next topic

A ginuae pig once again. I Just bought a new pick and place

A few years ago I was one of the first people in the US to buy the TM220 pick and place machine. There is no doubt it has served me well over the years. However we spend quite a bit of time switching out component reels since we only have 15 reel locations to work with on the TM220. Some boards we produce have to run through more than one program with full reel changes in between. Naturally I first looked to the tm220's big brother the TM240. However I found the CHMT36 which at first sight appeared to be a clone of the TM240. On closer inspection I discovered that it seems to have several improvements. It has a larger touch screen and a much more aesthetic user interface. It appears they have really taken a close look at the TM240 and figured out ways to improve it. Some of the changes are simple things like the on/off switch is on the side at the front instead of in the back. To more innovative changes such as the steel plate covering where the tape exits the feeder as opposed to the screws (that regularly make my tm220 growl at me). Further that plate is angled down, I imagine this will help with the tape constantly getting in the way when changing out the pcbs. Charmhigh is the manufacture and it appears they have been making CNC machines for years. I've just order my machine and I feel just like I do when I purchased the TM220. It's a lot of money and it feels risky. But I'm excited, if it performs as well as the TM220 has I will certainly be happy with my purchase. As a side note I believe the CHMT36 uses the same csv file format as the TM220 and TM240 machines so the script I wrote (and the significant improvements made on it by others) will be useful with this new machine. I hope to have it in the next week or so. I'll let you all know how it goes!

Re: A ginuae pig once again. I Just bought a new pick and pl

Reply #1
Receive it yet?

Re: A ginuae pig once again. I Just bought a new pick and pl

Reply #2
I haven't received it yet but it appears it has cleared customs. I'm hoping to have it on Monday.

Re: A ginuae pig once again. I Just bought a new pick and pl

Reply #3
Did you consider getting the SMT500?

Re: A ginuae pig once again. I Just bought a new pick and pl

Reply #4
Any feedback on this machine?
In addition to the improvements above, it appears to have 37 tapes - more than TM-240A and almost $500 cheaper than it.

Re: A ginuae pig once again. I Just bought a new pick and pl

Reply #5
I've received the machine and all around I'm happy with it. There are many positives and a couple negatives. The big negative is I didn't get the plate that replaces the screws that I'd mentioned in my previous post. I received one with those stupid screws. That said it doesn't seem to bind like the TM220 does. They fixed the right angle edge on the incoming portion of the feeder which seems to stop it from binding. I'm waiting to hear back from the manufacturer I'm hoping they will send me the plate. I was surprised to find a slot in the top of the machine that is made for the empty tape to go into and it exits either on the left hand side or below the machine. This is a nice improvement since the tape never goes under the board as it does with the tm220. The user interface is MUCH nicer than the TM220. Not just because it's bigger and full color. There are several small improvements in the user interface and a bunch of functionality that isn't in the tm220. One that I really like is you can select a part to start from. With the tm220 if we have to stop the board in the middle of the run for any reason there is no way for us to continue (barring letting the machine beep at full blast for the duration of resolving the problem such as change out a reel etc). With the CHMT36 you just enter the component number and it goes about it's business.

One thing that kind of caught me off guard is the IC tray. It's stacks 30-37. Each stack is individual and the machine goes back to that same location each time it needs that part. The TM220 has functionality where it will pick up the part at ic tray 1 then next time it needs the same part it goes to tray 2 and so on. I use this functionality all the time with the tm220 when doing panelized boards. The benefit of having individual stacks is that you can have different parts. Which will also come in handy. I've experimented with making a tube feeder for these IC trays. I made a plastic insert that goes in the IC tray which has a slot for the IC's to sit in. When the machine grabs one a vibration motor causes the next one to drop into place. It worked surprisingly well so I'm working on making a more permanent solution out of aluminum. With this improvement I'll get the best of both worlds since we won't have to manually place the part in the IC trays anymore and will be able to potentially have 8 IC tubes of parts. I started off being inspired by this guys solution : http://www.briandorey.com/post/DIY-Pick ... eeder.aspx

@az1324
I definitely looked into the SMT50 but didn't feel all that confident about the company itself. It seems like they are a very small operation and that made me nervous. Plus I currently only place larger components with 0805 being the smallest part and mostly SOIC and TSOC and SOT-23-5's. Vision would be nice but it's not really needed for my application.

All in all I think the CHMT36 machine is definitely an improvement over the TM220-240 machines.

Re: A ginuae pig once again. I Just bought a new pick and pl

Reply #6
@xinort
Can you tell me where did you get it and (if you don't mind) how much you paid for it?
I see some on sale at AliExpress for $4880 shipped to USA
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2013-New ... 53211.html

I am debating if I should get this one or TM240A.

Also did it come with any spare parts? Neodentech is offering spare parts kit that I am not sure if I need it.

I am glad you mentioned a misleading fact that 37 feeders is actually 29 tapes + 8 trays that is pretty much the same as TM240A

Re: A ginuae pig once again. I Just bought a new pick and pl

Reply #7
@Andy123

Yes, I bought it off of Aliexpress, it was $4880 shipped.

It didn't come with any spare parts. I'd purchased the spare parts kit from neoden when I'd bought my TM220a and I haven't yet needed to use any parts out of the kit.

This reminds me of one other benefit I don't think I've mentioned which is that on the chmt36 the nozzles are the Juki type. They are quick connect/disconnect where on the TM220a we have to use 2 wrenches (included) to change the nozzle. They are also widely available on Aliexpress and ebay.

I'm hoping to make a video of the new machine in action. I'll post a link here when I get it posted.

Re: A ginuae pig once again. I Just bought a new pick and pl

Reply #8
Good day All,
Looks like a number of smaller PnP's are now coming out...

$7500 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Automated-Pick- ... 2c8ebbea65

Quote
Brand new benchtop model, made in USA, never used. Stored in a climate controlled environment.
 
- 3 Feeders
- Comes with display, computer (preloaded with program), and vacuum pump.
- Color camera

    Placement rates up to 2100 cph
    Accurately places a wide range of components including 0603s, 25 mil QFPs, LED's, SMT connectors and many others
    Precision placement head design
    Up to 64 tape feeders, 96 8mm tape feeders with 12 lane bank feeders
    Easily interchangeable tape, loose, tube, or tray feeders
    Fiducial correction
    Auto tool changer with up to 4 nozzles
    Max Placement Rate: 2100 cph

Cheers,

Sam

Re: A ginuae pig once again. I Just bought a new pick and pl

Reply #9
Hi Sam the original new price is 3 times higher ;)

Re: A ginuae pig once again. I Just bought a new pick and pl

Reply #10
[quote author="supertronic"]Hi Sam the original new price is 3 times higher ;)[/quote]

Good day Supertronic,

Wow... so new that unit was $22500 USD ?  Amazing... 

I found another on Ebay (A Qm1500) that I suspect was big $$$ when new that could go for a reasonable price (no bids with a starting bid of $900):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/QM1500-SMT-Pick ... 0933&rt=nc

As I said, there seems to be more units becoming available. ... now if only semi automatic screen printers were equally plentiful and reasonably priced.

Cheers,

Sam

Re: A ginuae pig once again. I Just bought a new pick and pl

Reply #11
Well it hasn't gone as smooth as I'd hoped. The main problem I've been having is that the film collector (the clear tape collector) pulls way to hard. So much so that it advances some of the stacks when other parts are being placed.

Re: A ginuae pig once again. I Just bought a new pick and pl

Reply #12
This is very disappointing news, I was really looking to order this machine... :(

Is there a clutch on wheel that may be has too much friction on these wheels instead of adding friction to the tape itself?
I guess I will hold for now. $5K is large chunk of cash to waste...

Re: A ginuae pig once again. I Just bought a new pick and pl

Reply #13
Are you still using this machine? How is it holding up, if at all? Thanks!

Re: A ginuae pig once again. I Just bought a new pick and pl

Reply #14
Hello All,
This is Tonny from NeoDen Tech.

Glad to inform you our new model-NeoDen4(have camera) had been released to overseas market on 2nd,Nov.2015,
you can find details via all our platform(Ali-Express,Alibaba,Made in China,Global Sources,Ebay,Etc.).

Thank you for all of your supports on NeoDen Tech's machines.

Best wishes to all of you.