Two new Arduino boards (http://http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Boards) have been released:
- Arduino Uno (http://http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardUno)
- Arduino Mega2560 (http://http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardMega2560)
The most drastic change is that they have replaced the FT232RL with an AT90USB82 (2,-- EUR @ 100qty) for the USB-serial chip!!!
The Arduinos now have their own VID/PID and need no FTDI driver any longer! Like the DP projects that make use of PIC USB MCUs (Flash Destroyer, IR Toy) only an .inf file is needed for the installation.
Maybe we should consider moving away from the FT232R for future projects with MCUs that provide no USB port and look in the direction of PIC18F24J50 or AT90USB82/162 for the USB-serial interface.
The advantage of the AT90USB for this purpose is that there's an open source USB stack (LUFA (http://http://www.fourwalledcubicle.com/LUFA.php)). I believe this is an issue with using the USB PICs for open source projects, but I admit I haven't been paying close attention.
alm is right, LUFA is an open stack for AVR. We're still working on an open PIC stack, but it is very workable at the moment.
Microchip also has a new 8 (or a few more? 28?) pin USB->serial transceiver that's cheaper than the FTDI chip. The main benefit of the FTDI chip is that everyone uses it so it's highly available and the consolidated BOM means they're really cheap for us because Seeed orders a ton at once.
I wanted to add - when I first saw this topic I was really curious how they were doing it. I thought maybe the Arduino + bootloader had gone integrated USB.
The source code for the AT90USB82 on the new Arduinos is freely available and yes, they use the LUFA stack for AT90USBs.
If you are curious, take a look:
http://github.com/arduino/Arduino/tree/ ... firmwares/ (http://github.com/arduino/Arduino/tree/master/hardware/arduino/firmwares/) --> arduino-usbdfu/
I've been skimming AVR documentation off and on for months, and it seems like a USB bootloader is available from the factory, and I believe it is DFU compatible. Looks like they also have Flash protection so that the bootloader shouldn't get erased by accident. All in all, that's a lot prettier than the effort needed to get the same features on the PIC. Then again, certain PIC models have hardware features that are impossible to add to the AVR...
http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/4539/what-are-you-going-to-do-with-the-arduino-uno (http://http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/4539/what-are-you-going-to-do-with-the-arduino-uno)
Re: Arduino Uno
I'm a huge fan of the USB-AVRs. Last year I built an AT90USB162 board. Since then, I've been working on a single chip Bus Pirate clone on one and using them to build USB connected test jigs for our production line.
...
I had hoped that the Arduino Uno would combine the two chips. But, I'm disappointed. My advice - wait for v1.1 (Uno punto uno?) (see @reemrevnivek below).
Looking at the Uno schematic, they haven't connected up most of the pins from the ATmegaU8 (not even out to pads). So, some the LUFA stuff won't work without big changes (JTAG, AVR programming, SD cards as mass storage, etc)
There are two lines connecting the ATmegaU8 to the ATmega328 - meant for a serial link.
My advice, buy a Teensy. If the Arduino users start coding for ATmegaU8 it'll run better on Teensy's ATmegaU4 and have acres of flash and RAM left. With the DFU/HID bootloader in the ATmega8, things must be very tight indeed.
PS. ATmegaU8 as FTDI replacement for Arduino - see Benito and Uno response.
PPS. Here's the FAQ. The U8 is a cost down.
Yeah, I don't see the point of paying for two AVR chips just to maintain compatibility with the Arduino. There's not really anything crucial in that world that can't be done better. Personally, I'd love to see a single-chip USB-AVR board with lots of I/O breakouts - why not break into the modern world?
True, there is no need for a dedicated USB controller on the Arduinos.
They could go 32-Bit i.e. AVR32UC3B based board - winavr toolchain to be replaced with the GNU AVR32 toolchain in Arduino IDE ;)
Or, for the "big" ATmegas without USB controller they could use V-USB (http://http://www.obdev.at/products/vusb/index-de.html) - works well for a virtual COM port!
... or go AT90USB1287 with LUFA for the USB part ... but some/all (?) of the 5V shields could not be used anymore.
Why not just keep most things the same, use an 8-bit USB-AVR, and put some 3.3V-to-5V logic level shifter/buffer chips for the shields? I haven't studied the AVR data sheets side by side, but it doesn't seem that there could be much difference between them.
I didn't check the data sheet for the AT90USB1286 and AT90USB1287 ... operating voltage range for Vcc is 2.7V ... 5.5V. All shields should still work.
Those chips are hard to source, so.
What about the AT90USB82 that is specifically used in the Uno? Same voltages? Same availability/sourcing?
The AT90USB82 has only 8k flash ... it's the smallest USB AVR.
AT90USB646/AT90USB1286 (full-speed USB 2.0 device) or AT90USB647/AT90USB1287 (full-speed USB 2.0 device/host OTG) would be options for an Arduino Mega. ATmega32U2 or ATmega32U4 are the 32k flash size "equivalents" to the ATmega328 used on the Arduino/Arduino Uno ... but then the code for the virtual COM port in addition to the bootloader would reduce the memory available for applications considerably.
In the end the Arduino team made the right decision to use two MCUs (one for USB communication and the other one for applications). It keeps the small (Arduino Uno) and the big Arduino (Mega 2560) compatible and gives maximum space for applications on the Uno. Beyond compatibility the AT90USB82 can be reprogrammed and used to flash the ATmegas via the SPI interface (kind of like the bit-bang option the USB Arduinos with FT232RL had) or for other applications. The new Arduinos even cost a little less than their predecessors and I think they are great designs.
If it's all about price then a "light version" could use an ATmega640, ATmega1280 or ATmega2560 with a "soft" USB virtual COM port.
I think part of the issue has to be ease of use. USB isn't simple. Beginners want (need) to poll and use blocking loops, and USB drivers usually need more attention than that. I would have done the same thing.
I think after all these years of staying away from Arduino, it is time for me to get at least the Arduino Uno board. For quick prototyping stuff. And also an mBed maybe and... (the list goes on)
Before ordering an embed look at the new LPCXpresso (http://http://ics.nxp.com/lpcxpresso/) LPC1768 Board (OM13000) ! It comes with everything the mbed has (even a PHY) plus a JTAG interface you can use with all LPC1xxx. From Code Red you can download their ARM toolchain for free and don't have to rely on the web-based mbed toolchain!
For less than $ 30 ($29.95 @ Future Electronics (http://http://www.futureelectronics.com/en/Technologies/Product.aspx?ProductID=OM13000NXP3001413)) you get far more than for the $ 59 you pay for the LPC1768 mbed (http://http://www.futureelectronics.com/en/Technologies/Product.aspx?ProductID=OM13000NXP3001413) ;)
Hint: Apply for the NXP mbed Design Challenge (http://http://www.circuitcellar.com/nxpmbeddesignchallenge) and get a free mbed LPC1768 ;)
uhhh, I think I am a bit off topic now ... anyone interested in discussing mbed and/or LPCXpresso (or maybe STM32VLDISCOVERY (http://http://www.st.com/mcu/contentid-133-110-STM32VLDISCOVERY.html) - less than $ 10 ;), please start a new thread!
[quote author="tayken"]I think after all these years of staying away from Arduino, it is time for me to get at least the Arduino Uno board. For quick prototyping stuff. And also an mBed maybe and... (the list goes on)[/quote]Careful before you jump: I ended up buying the DeVaSys EZ-USB USBI2CIO board after a long period of it being unavailable, and then I never used it!
I liked it so much on the first project where I used it that I regretted having to return it to my client at the end of the project. But later, once I finally had my very own DeVaSys, I found that I had moved on to PIC and found the EZ-USB too limited in what it can do in the USB world. I don't think that I've even broken the seal on the anti-static package!
I'm only half-serious, though. If you want a Uno, then go ahead. But just realize that there might be a better design around the corner (e.g. a single-AVR USB variant).
[quote author="IPenguin"]
Before ordering an embed look at the new LPCXpresso (http://http://ics.nxp.com/lpcxpresso/) LPC1768 Board (OM13000) ! It comes with everything the mbed has (even a PHY) plus a JTAG interface you can use with all LPC1xxx. From Code Red you can download their ARM toolchain for free and don't have to rely on the web-based mbed toolchain!
For less than $ 30 ($29.95 @ Future Electronics (http://http://www.futureelectronics.com/en/Technologies/Product.aspx?ProductID=OM13000NXP3001413)) you get far more than for the $ 59 you pay for the LPC1768 mbed (http://http://www.futureelectronics.com/en/Technologies/Product.aspx?ProductID=OM13000NXP3001413) ;)
Hint: Apply for the NXP mbed Design Challenge (http://http://www.circuitcellar.com/nxpmbeddesignchallenge) and get a free mbed LPC1768 ;)
uhhh, I think I am a bit off topic now ... anyone interested in discussing mbed and/or LPCXpresso (or maybe STM32VLDISCOVERY (http://http://www.st.com/mcu/contentid-133-110-STM32VLDISCOVERY.html) - less than $ 10 ;), please start a new thread!
[/quote]
I checked it couple of weeks ago, they were out of free boards, but I'll think about LPCXpresso. The reason I stated mbed was I saw it in an electronics shop in Akihabara and it was pretty cheap at first glance.
[quote author="rsdio"]
Careful before you jump: I ended up buying the DeVaSys EZ-USB USBI2CIO board after a long period of it being unavailable, and then I never used it!
I liked it so much on the first project where I used it that I regretted having to return it to my client at the end of the project. But later, once I finally had my very own DeVaSys, I found that I had moved on to PIC and found the EZ-USB too limited in what it can do in the USB world. I don't think that I've even broken the seal on the anti-static package!
I'm only half-serious, though. If you want a Uno, then go ahead. But just realize that there might be a better design around the corner (e.g. a single-AVR USB variant).
[/quote]
It is always possible. After I got a SuBoard II (a PIC 18F4550 development board developed at my old university) after many years of TA work they redesigned the board with more features. There will always be something better in the future. :)
I have split the last two posts of this topic as it continued to drift further away from the original subject.
Cortex-M3 based Arduino form factor platforms and IDEs for them based on the original Arduino IDE are
a very interesting subject of their own:
ARM Cortex-M3 based Arduino Boards and IDE (http://http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/index.php?topic=1075.msg11028#msg11028)
Thanks for splitting the topic. All the different arduino-alikes are interesting.