Dangerous Prototypes

Hi,
I just started a new website for our SMT machines.
There are some things not completed yet but we improve every day.
Feel free to have a look.

http://www.smallsmt.biz (http://www.smallsmt.biz)

Best regards
Michael

Hi,
we try to sell a good product to improve your prototyping cycle.

I develop electronic products since 1988 and in the past the costs to produce prototypes are increasing so much.

Second problem is the time you need to produce a small batch.

My solution is a good desktop PNP  machine at a reasonable price to do this jobs for me in a short time.

I put 46 of my standard components on the machine to produce my prototype and standard boards.
It's easy to import placement file, teach in the PCB zero point and mark points and finaly run the job.

We buy our components in small reels at Farnell's web shop so it's easy use on  our PNP machine.
I build batches of 1 to 400 pcs in a working day by placing up to 20000 components.

I am happy to help to improve your prototyping cycle.


Best regards

Michael

Hi,

today I did 2 articles demonstrating the performance of our visual alignment system.
You can see how mark detection is working and the precision of TQFP48 placement.

Best regards
Michael

I've taken the plunge and ordered a VP-2500D machine from SMALLSMT.BIZ, hopefully I should have it here in the UK within the next 2-3 weeks so I'll upload some pix and perhaps a video of it in action and let everyone know how I get on with it. I've had great help and advice from Michael - thanks!

 Looks like the perfect solution for me as my boards have an SMD BOM count of around 40 to 49 different value/type components with between 100 and 200 components in total per board; so I can place everything in one pass, it should manage around 2,000 components/hr with full vision which is fast enough for me and I should therefore be able to easily p&p 80 to 100 pcb's per day. Can't wait :-)

Hello 2thick, I am looking at this machine also and the tm245p. I would love to hear your feedback on this. The vision seems to be a nice option.

[quote author="viscomjim"]Hello 2thick, I am looking at this machine also and the tm245p. I would love to hear your feedback on this. The vision seems to be a nice option.[/quote]

Will do. I already own an SMT50 and this seems to run the same (or very similar) Win 7/8 software which I do like. Advantage over the SMT50 are extra feeders with pneumatic advance, along with twin heads which really helps the speed. Vision system seems similar too (which is a good thing!) however it has three cameras instead of two so should work really well with large and small parts alike. I looked at the tmp245 but I prefer to have a vision based system so that I don't have to manually re-align some parts after placement, which was a problem with the TM240. I also much prefer the windows 7 based software to the Neoden built in software and touch screen.

Just to tell that I am very happy with the machine I have got a VP2500, it really worth the money!!! Really fast delivery, good packaging and the best is the great techinical SUPPORT!!! without the help of Michael, this machine would be really difficult to learn how to use therefore I am so thankful for his technical support. The software is really profesional. About quality, it looks strong, good finishing surface. The cameras have good quality image. I had problems with the windows driver because windows 10 don't allow me to install not signed drivers, but after change it on windows, all works fine. A bit difficult to mount the reels on the feeders, but after mount few of them I have got the trick. So.. my advice.. if you need a pick and place machine almost profesional, with an average of 2500 parts / hour when use vision and your budget is under USD 10000, you shouldn't doubt about get this machine. This machine has nothing to envy to the machines that cost USD20000. Actually to work in a semi professional way, VISION is a must!! no one machine in this range of prices offer it.
 If someone needs photos or videos of it working, ask and I will send.

Hello jspain. I would love nothing more than all the information you are willing to share. I am in the market right now and due to the "newness" of this machine, having an actual user be able to show and tell would be invaluable to me. I have been seriously looking at the tm245p and from this forum was introduced to the vp2500. Peaked my interest greatly because of vision.

Could you possibly share your experiences with this unit and any "real world" information? I don't know how to thank you enough as this will be a pretty big investment for a small guy like myself.

Hello viscomjim
I just started to work with the machine, the software is really good!!! after 4 hours with the help of Michael I was able to make a little test. Get a look
[attachment=5]
The second try was much better
you can see here

[attachment=4]

And after it i wanted to try to do it alone without the help of Michael, and it was not dificult

[attachment=3]


About the machine quality... I can tell that it really worth the money.. it dosnt looks like the chinese products we are used to get.



[attachment=2]
[attachment=1]
[attachment=0]

I cant post video here, i will upload in youtube.

Any question, just write here.

Regards

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jspain, thanks for all that. I would love to see video if you are able to post some on youtube. Your efforts are greatly appreciated!!!

Thanks!

QFP, QFN, and TSSOP pad alignment photos would be great. Thanks!

Hi Royce,

it's all the same because we use the outline for alignment.
Please review my videos on http://http://www.smallsmt.biz/know-how/placing-tqfp48-demo/
and http://http://www.smallsmt.biz/videos/

Tell me a special part you like to see and I do a video for you.
Maybe I need some days to buy the parts but I will do.

The only limit is 0.5mm pitch and 0.4mm will work but need more care for adjustment.
If you can live with 0.1mm maximum misplacement normally we place better than 0.1mm this machine will be ok for you!

Best Regards
Michael

I'm curious about what this recent crop of smaller machines can do. I'd like to get a feel for the lines that divide hand assembly, out-sourced assembly, and in-house assembly. I feel like the sort of shops looking at this class of machine are not making cell phones or other tiny stuff and thus 0201 and 0402 performance is irrelevant. Reliably accurate of placement fine pitch chips that are fiddly to work with by hand (but still quite doable so that hand assembly is an option) would be more important.

For whatever, reason, most of the videos for these machines just place a bunch of resistors. This makes me wonder about how well they do with chips.

Seeing several 0.5mm QFNs and several 0.65mm TSSOPs placed close enough to the pads top reflow properly would be a pretty convincing argument that a given machine can place any sort of chip I'm likely to use. Your new TQFP-48 video + plus hi-res still photographs is a big improvement over the video with that larger package that seems to have bent/missing pins.

I do some sample videos next week I am too busy this week!

Hello Royce

I didn't  post a photo of qfn or tssop because I don't have experience on this yet. As I told before this is the work of 4 hours. I will try to use a few Ics and post results. But don't take  me as reference. I'm not professional with smt. I just show what a newby would need to cope when open the packaging.

[quote author="jspain"]I'm not professional with smt. I just show what a newby would need to cope when open the packaging.[/quote]

This makes you a good reference. :D

Hi ,

I just got some MLF chips  to do a video the next days.

We are preparing a new table kit including the feeder carts and a separated feeder cart kit too.



It needs some time to assemble but it's a stable and perfect solution.

You can view my table here http://http://www.smallsmt.biz/know-how/building-vp-2500d-workingtable/

My first customer Jorge (jspain) build the first table kit and had a lot of work.
But finally he finished the big puzzle ;)



Her you see the used parts.



Plus additional 8x 800mm profiles and 60 mounting edges 120 washer plates 120 screws!
You only need to add a 900mm square table board!

Thank you all for the good support!

Best regards
Michael

Hello again,

I forgot to upload the photo of microcontroller result. It is using vision. The result is really good!!

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Also I got the table to place the pick and place, a real LEGO, but now i see it is very strong and light. About 4 hours to do all the job. I will post later the pick and place and the table.

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[quote author="viscomjim"]Hello 2thick, I am looking at this machine also and the tm245p. I would love to hear your feedback on this. The vision seems to be a nice option.[/quote]

Ok, here's my feedback so far!

My VP2500D arrived a week or so ago, but only just got around to unpacking it and getting it setup. I went for both North and West feeders so I have 50 feeders on my machine and the optional parts tray. It was really well packed and arrived undamaged, the machine itself is actually screwed down solidly to a pallet which then has a wooden crate constructed around it. Software installed without any problem onto a Win 7 PC, there is a USB dongle for copy protection.

The customer service and support is superb, this has to be the most important thing when buying a P&P machine - they are very complex with a steep learning curve and good support is essential. Every question that I had was answered very quickly and Michael has been brilliant with his instruction. Also, a full user manual is under construction, I've had access to the fist 21 pages and it will be a huge help to everyone whether they are new to P&P or very experienced and just need to know the relevant setting to get up and running.

 I use Eagle to design my boards and the latest version of the VP2500D software has an option to import Eagle mounting data directly, so no need to type everything in manually - just run the import utlility and all of the component placement data is in the program and ready to go - impressive! So after three or four hours I am now placing components onto my own boards from my Eagle files using full vision placement. You have the option whether or not to use vison placement independantly for each feeder lane - using vision placement rather than "blind" placement doesn't seem to slow the job down too much, so I'll probably use it for all parts rather than just small parts and IC's. Twin heads are great as I can fit two different nozzles and use the larger nozzle on Head 2 for electro caps and large IC's and the and not have to stop the job to change nozzles. There are two upward looking vision cameras with two different focal lengths, so camera 1 can be used with head 1 for smaller parts and camera 2 with head 2 for larger parts. Head 1 can access both camera 1and 2, whereas head 2 can only access camera 2 - not really a limitation, more an observation.

The design and construction of the machine is very impressive, the pneumatic tape advance system works very well. Everything seems very well engineered, quality brass idler wheels have been used instead of cheaper aluminium wheels, linear bearings are very smooth too. Quality stepper controllers must have been used, there are no noises from the motors that you get with some of the cheaper Chinese controllers. You will need a very solid table to mount it on, it has quite a bit of momentum when working so needs a solid, level base.

The software is very, very good! There are options for almost everything - as an example the vision placement can be x,y only or x,y with angle correction, you can select this for each feeder lane independantly. The mark points proceedure is great - when you take out a finished board and fit a new board for placement there will always be a slight misalignment due to slight variances in the milling of the board edges and a slight difference in the position of the new pcb in the holder - neither of these are a problem, the visual mark alignment automatically finds the centre of the two fudicial marks and corrects for it so that all components will be accurately placed. This will really speed up workflow when placing many boards in a session as I intend to do.

So, there's my initial impressions of the VP2500D, I am really pleased with it and it is light years ahead of the TM220/240 machines and the full vision system gives it a big advantage over the Neoden TM245p - without vision you will spend a lot of time with tweezers and a magnifier re-aligning smaller components and IC's before reflow. I'm hoping to have it in full production later this week so can post more info and some video of it in action.

Hi 2Thick,

Man, that was really nice of you to write all that. It gives me a better level of confidence when an actual user can tell their experiences. This sounds great so far and I will keep my eyes on this thread to hopefully hear more about your experience. I am sure I'm not the only one and so a big THANKS to you. Keep it up.

Hi,

Allan did his first PCB please look at

http://smallsmt.xobor.de/t5f2-Just-plac ... t-PCB.html (http://smallsmt.xobor.de/t5f2-Just-placed-my-first-PCB.html)

I am really impressed how fast he learned to use the system!

Best regards
Michael

[quote author="viscomjim"]Hi 2Thick,

Man, that was really nice of you to write all that. It gives me a better level of confidence when an actual user can tell their experiences. This sounds great so far and I will keep my eyes on this thread to hopefully hear more about your experience. I am sure I'm not the only one and so a big THANKS to you. Keep it up.[/quote]

No problem, this is a big ticket item and buying it was a bit of a leap of faith on my part, but really glad that I did - very happy to pass on my experiences to help others.

Check out the link in supertronic's post above to see a picture and info on the pcb that I've just built after 20 hours or so experience with my VP-2500D.

I used both heads for placement,head one has the CN065 nozzle installed and head 2 has the  larger diameter CN140 nozzle fitted for larger parts such as SMA, SOIC8 and TO252. So, I don't need to change heads in the middle of a job, these two heads will fit everyting from 0603 to  SOIC-14 and TO252 :-) The nozzles are high quality Samsung parts with spring loading, this means that if you get the settings slightly wrong the spring will save the nozzle from getting bent or broken - there is some compliance built into the system. Most of the other machines in this price range seem to have fixed nozzles and a slight misjudgement could easily trash the nozzle or worse.......

The vision system is really easy to use and doesn't slow things down too much. I'd initially thought that it would be tricky to set up and that I'd have to draw part outlines etc, but in reality all you do is put in the dimensions of the part (including pins), set a few dialogue boxes and that's it! Then just set the contrast and brightness so that the part outline is clear and you're good to go - for the same type of part you can just use the same settings on different feeders, but each feeder can have it's own setttings which will vary for different size and shaped parts. You can also save feeder groups, so you only ever need to do this once for a particular part.  I use head one with camera one for smaller parts and head two with camera two for larger parts, as camera 2 has a wider field of view - you can choose which camera and head that you use independently for each feeder.

The machine has three cameras in total, cameras one and two are upward looking and are used for vision placement only, whereas camera three is a downward looking camera that is used for aligning fudicial marks, component position in the feeder and measurement - when operating the software automatically switches between downward and upward looking cameras in a very intuitive way, very useful at low speeds as you are learning.

There is a slight speed overhead for using vision placement (but even so it is pretty quick), however for me it is much faster than blind placement because I don't have to line up slightly misplaced parts with a magnifier and a pair of tweezers before reflow. I know that reflow can sometimes straighten out misplacement due to the surface tension of the molten solder, but in my experience this is a bit hit and miss. I take pride in my boards looking professional, raggy component alignment has no place in my world :-)

I've spent many hundreds of hours hand placing parts and it is truly magical to watch the VP-2500D stuff the same board in less than a tenth of the time, with absolute accuracy and without any eyestrain :-) The sofware is great, a bit daunting at first because there are so many parameters and settings, but you quickly get to know your way around it.

I would also like to say a big thank you to Michael for his brilliant support, I've got this machine up and running very quickly because of this. I've sent him a good few emails in the last week on things that I was unsure of and he always gets back quickly. German engineering and support with Chinese manufacturing, that works for me!  Michael  speaks excellent English too, which is a great relief as my German vocabulary is limited to around ten words in total, and at least half of them are rude ;-)

So, within a week I've learnt the machine well enough to get it into production........

Hope that this is helpful!

Allan

Hello,
we have 2 new machine types on our website.
The VP-2800D is a very big machine have up to 63x 8mm feeders and with optional east feeder up to 100 feeder lines on a desktop machine!

After our exhibition in Berlin we decided to start selling a high precision machine at a higher price too.
Some of the customers want to place 0.3mm pitch devices.
We developed a machine having spindle on X and Y axis using servo motors to support higher precision but this will add 2500usd additional costs to our machine.
We offer now VP-2500HP meeting this requirements for higher precision.

Please visit our website for more information!
http://http://www.smallsmt.biz/home/vision-placer-vp-2x00d/
Best regards
Michael

Hi,

now we are able to sell our High Precision machines VP-2500HP and VP-2800HP now using servo motor, linear guides and spindle instead of belt drive.
The machines can be equipped with West , North and East feeder blocks so you have up to 100 possible feeder lines in one machine.

We will release a new reflow oven having 7" touch panel controller including fully remote access and reflow profile downloads from our website in 1Q2015.

A new 4 head machine is in development to increase the placement speed and eliminate nozzle changes.

We offer entry level  single head pnp machine soon (2Q 2016) to cover the needs in many maker spaces to receive a vision based pnp machine for a low price.

Best regards
Michael

Hi,

we have a special discount in January:

You receive our best selling VP-2500D including west, north feeder and big tray for 6799USD (up to 51 x8mm feeders included!)
http://http://www.smallsmt.biz/home/shop/#cc-m-product-12460220032
and our VP-2800D including west, north feeder and big tray for 7999USD (up to 63 x8mm feeders included!).
http://http://www.smallsmt.biz/home/shop/#cc-m-product-12687133332


You receive up to 500USD discount only need to add shipping costs!

Best Regards
Michael

Hi,

we reached a new milestone the VP-2500HP spindle machine can place 0201 using vision alignment.

The video you find  Twitter http://http://www.twitter.com/smallsmt

You see 0402 and 0201 parts placed using vision alignment while machine was running on mid speed.
For the 0201 placement this was the first test I think it is possible to improve by tuning the speed parameters!




Machine descriptions http://www.smallsmt.biz/home/vision-placer-vp-2x00d/ (http://http://www.smallsmt.biz/home/vision-placer-vp-2x00d/)

Shop catalog http://www.smallsmt.biz/shop-catalog/ (http://http://www.smallsmt.biz/shop-catalog/)

VP-2500HP machine used for this test run.



Top view of VP-2500HP machine having 3 side feeders.

We have Chinese New Year Promototion for our VP-2X00D belt machines!.

Please visit our shop http://www.smallsmt.biz/shop-catalog/ (http://http://www.smallsmt.biz/shop-catalog/)

Hi Michael,

The VP2500D looks like a machine we could use to replace the TM240A. Do you have other users writing about their experiences? I know its a fairly new machine but hearing from other users kinda makes purchase decisions easier.

Component height of 12mm makes this a good upgrade from the TM240, not to mention the vision feature.

You mentioned you will have a 4 head system soon, not that I would need it but is it something pretty close to completion?

Will definitely follow this thread for updates.

Thanks

Royco

Dear Royco,
the 4 head system will be finished this month but it is also possible to buy a 2 head machine using the nozzle changer.

If you like contact me for a web meeting to demonstrate our System.

Best regards
Michael

I did a new web page showing the new 2016 design for our VP-2500HP machine.

http://http://www.smallsmt.biz/vision-placer-pick-and-place-machine-2016/

Some new videos are on youtube too:

http://https://youtu.be/AYg5mWZnSvk

http://https://youtu.be/_loKdD-Pgrs

Visit us on Maker Faire Hannover from 27 -29 May.

We offer a workshop for PCB prototyping this year too in Nordhorn please visit our website.
 
http://www.smallsmt.biz/exhibitions/ (http://www.smallsmt.biz/exhibitions/)