Dangerous Prototypes

I already received my Raspberry Pi board (after waiting for 2 months), so I don't need it for myself, but I am thinking of those still standing on the line...

I found this board from Olimex:
OLinuXino-Micro (http://http://www.olimex.com/dev/imx233-olinuxino-micro.html)

FEATURES:

• iMX233 ARM926J processor at 454Mhz
• 64 MB RAM
• SD-card connector for booting the Linux image
• TV PAL/NTSC video output
• 1 USB High Speed Host
• three Buttons
• 2x30 pin GPIO for connection of other hardware
• PCB dimensions: 3.00'' x 1.70'' (76.2mm x 43.2mm)
• Nominal dimensions: 3.40'' x 1.70'' (86.4mm x 43.2mm)

Price-wise, it is in the same range as the RPi at 23.95 EUR + VAT + shipping.

However, here are the differences:

• Fully Open Hardware and Open Source
• No HDMI, only PAL/NTSC TV out
• No (closed design) GPU
• 60 GPIO pins for hacking!!!
• Switched power supply
• MicroSD vs. SD
• No Ethernet

And there is also a "OLinuXino-Mini (http://http://www.olimex.com/dev/imx233-olinuxino-mini.html)" variant (not yet available):

And the "OLinuXino-Maxi (http://http://www.olimex.com/dev/imx233-olinuxino-maxi.html)" at 44.95 EUR + VAT + Shipping:

These are the proper hackable boards, not those black box sht RPi .. lots of io, everything open .. yeah it does not have hdmi but wth can you do with hdmi output on your robot, trolley, kill bot...

[quote author="arhi"]These are the proper hackable boards, not those black box sht RPi .. lots of io,...[/quote]
These are nice boards, but not every project needs lots of I/O. The RPi might not have lots of I/O but what I/O it does have will be enough for many projects.

[quote author="TonyD"][quote author="arhi"]These are the proper hackable boards, not those black box sht RPi .. lots of io,...[/quote]
These are nice boards, but not every project needs lots of I/O. The RPi might not have lots of I/O but what I/O it does have will be enough for many projects.[/quote]

It's questionable since RPi is mostly closed source so proper usage of the board is impossible, only trough linux itself, if you wanna make your own rtos you can't

I have to disagree with arhi's characterization of Pi. It isn't OSH, but all the pins are documented that are broken out with a complete memory map and standard documentation. And the ARM processor's documentation can be had at ARM. The only thing that isn't documented really is the GPU which is used to bootstrap the thing which is screwy, this affects a very small amount of people who might want to port an OS I think and that's about it.

If you want a cheap does everything gets on the internet board Pi is still a good choice. I would argue better than Chumby or the first iMX board in this thread due to more RAM/resources. Also likely good because there are a lot of them and so there will be a market for things to sell that goes with them.

It really depends on what you want with it. If you want multimedia machine running linux with few gpio - yes RPi is superb machine. It's small factor, low price and you can easily use it... it has more GPIO's then your average alix board and is waaaaaay cheaper then your average pc104 board... so if you need that - it's best there is on market, and you don't give a darn about openness etc etc... 'cause it works..

On the other hand if running xorg on your embedded system is not your preference and having real time control over number of gpio pins then RPi is just wrong device for you and these olimex boards are perfect solution (at least on paper, still need to get some to test if they are really that good)... 

For my development RPi is 100% unusable machine (except to glue it to the back of my tv and use as multimedia center - but I do not have TV so it's kinda ...) and these olimex boards look very usable ..

I agree that the Chumby is a nice board... With a built-in LiPo battery charger, LCD controller, 3 USB ports, 1 Audio amplifier, a joystick and 3 axis accelerometer + 1 GB uSD card, it is a little more powerful than Olimex's iMX233-OLinuXino-Micro.

However, the iMX233-OLinuXino-Micro is smaller 3.00'' x 1.70'' (76.2mm x 43.2mm) vs. 3.90" x 2.40" (100mm x 60mm), but more importantly, 3 times cheaper ($30 vs. $89)!!!

And Olimex is making prototype boards for quite a few years now, so it is not like this board will not get any support or interest in it.

The big difference between these 2 boards and the RPi is that if you want, you can roll your own board based on these designs... Unlike the RPi, which has package-on-package SDRAM, impossible CPU from Broadcom to source in small quantities (no full datasheet anyway) and patent-crippled/closed source video drivers...

[quote author="Squonk"]I agree that the Chumby is a nice board... With a built-in LiPo battery charger, LCD controller, 3 USB ports, 1 Audio amplifier, a joystick and 3 axis accelerometer + 1 GB uSD card, it is a little more powerful than Olimex's iMX233-OLinuXino-Micro.

However, the iMX233-OLinuXino-Micro is smaller 3.00'' x 1.70'' (76.2mm x 43.2mm) vs. 3.90" x 2.40" (100mm x 60mm), but more importantly, 3 times cheaper ($30 vs. $89)!!!

And Olimex is making prototype boards for quite a few years now, so it is not like this board will not get any support or interest in it.

The big difference between these 2 boards and the RPi is that if you want, you can roll your own board based on these designs... Unlike the RPi, which has package-on-package SDRAM, impossible CPU from Broadcom to source in small quantities (no full datasheet anyway) and patent-crippled/closed source video drivers...[/quote]

exacly, the Olimex linuxino you can use as a development board, and once you develop a project you can built a custom project specifi board around their source files...:D making it super simple to develop LINUX powered projects...

And with new TVs that have USB-s etc..don't really see the point of R-Pi as a Multimedia machine,as the TVs are already that..

On the plus side for the R-Pi it is a great cheap Linux PC, for kids to learn programing etc, as it was intended from get-go..

There seems to be some misunderstanding about how h/w hackable to RPi is?

It's got 17 i/o lines which is only 3 less than an Arduino which has 20 i/o. It's got GPIO, UART, SPI, I2C and a single PWM. The only thing it lacks is analog i/o. Check out the stuff I've built for the Rpi on my blog (http://http://zuzebox.wordpress.com/)

Anyway, getting back to the Olimex, they are great looking boards and I'll be adding one to my collection. The only thing I'm disappointed with is they're used composite video, which after spending some time using composite video on the RPi, I forgotten how terrible it is to use as a computer screen ;-)

[quote author="TonyD"]There seems to be some misunderstanding about how h/w hackable to RPi is?
It's got 17 i/o lines which is only 3 less than an Arduino which has 20 i/o.
[/quote]

if you are comparing it to small arduino, you could compare it to 8pin pic too, what's the point, compare it at least to arduino MEGA as this is a 32bit cpu.... please don't compare it to a 1000x smaller device ... and mega has more then 50 gpio pins... so wrt gpio RPi is a huge disappointment with hackability index super low because of low number of gpio's

Thanks for the link.

I am in for one Olimex-Micro.  For anyone in the US, Mouser has them listed for $25.

This may not make sense to others (including the wife), but I've always wanted to build a "computer" capable of running Linux.  And by build I mean design the board layout, fabricate the board, hand solder the cpu, memory and passives and then get Linux to boot to a usable environment.  With this chip I may actually be able to do it.

@triden: if this is your goal, then I wish you to succeed!

Hand soldering is a big challenge: only a few Linux-capable chips (with MMU!) are available in non-BGA packages, and the iMX233 CPU is among them.

Second challenge is memory signal routing and integrity: see the Rascal Micro (http://http://rascalmicro.com/) board and especially the blog (http://http://rascalmicro.com/blog/) on memory timing errors.

Third and probably not last is the bootloader, with PLL calibration and SDRAM timings...

It's funny how much Olimex crowed about how terrible the Pi is for using a "closed" chip, only for them to turn around and design a board (http://https://www.olimex.com/dev/a13-olinuxino.html) around a Chinese chip with no documentation and a closed GPU.

I have followed the Olimex blog (http://http://olimex.wordpress.com/) for some time - here is a short summary on advanced OLinuXino projects:

For those who want VGA, maybe DVI/HDMI out on the OLinuXino or just a RasperryPi or BeagleBone killer you may have to wait a bit longer ;)

Olimex is working on (a) new OLinuXino board(s) with new Allwinner SoCs (1GHz Cortex-A8 & Mali-400 GPU):
- A13-OLinuXino (http://https://www.olimex.com/dev/a13-olinuxino.html) (A13 1GHZ Cortex-A8 with VGA via simple R ladder video DAC but w/o Ethernet (http://http://olimex.wordpress.com/2012/06/12/low-cost-lcd-to-vga-adapter/))


(Source: Olimex - A13-OLinuXino preliminary schematic is complete (http://http://olimex.wordpress.com/2012/06/12/a13-olinuxino-preliminary-schematic-is-complete/))
 
- to be followed by A10-OLinuXino (A10 1GHz Cortex-A8 with Mali-400MP GPU & HDMI @ up to 2160p (http://http://www.allwinnertech.com/product/A10.html)) ... but then the A10 comes in a 441 pin/ball BGA package ...

For those who are interested, (faulty and incomplete) A13 documentation can be found on github - Olimex - OLinuXino - A13-PDFs (http://https://github.com/OLIMEX/OLINUXINO/tree/master/HARDWARE/A13-PDFs) :)

However, be aware of "mouse traps (http://http://olimex.wordpress.com/2012/05/18/mouse-traps-in-a13-reference-schematic/)" in the documentation!

Some interesting information on HDMI and DVI licensing policies can be found in "HDMI Doubts (http://http://olimex.wordpress.com/2012/05/17/hdmi-doubts/)" and the accompanying comments.

Last but not least Linux 3.0.8 kernel source and Android 4.0.3 sources for A10 with A13 support have been leaked (http://http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=25978796&postcount=121) and do compile ;)

@andersm: I didn't get the impression that Olimex/Tsvetan crowed about how terrible the RPi (or the BeagleBone) is when compared to the i.MX233-OLinuXino. It was rather the community that started comparing i.MX233-OLinuXino with RPi and BB (instead of THB). So Olimex correctly pointed out the advantages of OLinuXino boards for those who have commercial and/or industrial grade projects in mind, need more than 17 GPIOs, look for an open source design that's easy to extend/modify and manufacture etc. Once they had started designing the A13-OLinuXino they responded to (the previous challenge by) the community by releasing preliminary performance estimates for the A13 in comparison with the RPi and BB (http://http://olimex.wordpress.com/2012/06/12/a13-olinuxino-preliminary-schematic-is-complete/) ;)

I suggest not to compare i.MX233-OlimeXino with RPi or BB but rather with the Chumby Hacker Board (CHB) - or better to look at them as a timely replacement/alternative for the THB since they may no longer be available after the remaining CHB stock will be sold.

Still, the A13 datasheet isn't complete: for each IP block, it only gives the corresponding pinout, no details on the registers. Nothing on GPU either...

I think when RPi or Olimex is designing a board with "community" in mind, they shouldn't use a part that has some kind of restricted access to specification.

The point is: I don't care about getting the cheapest or most powerful board around, I want it to be completely FREE (as in "speech"), so as triden above, I could just build it myself if I want to. THIS IS where the hacker fun (and true knowledge!) is.

IIRC A13 has full documentation available only not in english, I might be wrong, that's the info I have in mind since day one and have no clue where I got it from (I hope it didn't come up just from wishful thinking of my own, but its possible)...

IMO olimex boards and rpi board are not really comparable as imo they are made for completely different segment of society. RPi is a "small el cheapo computer" and for that it's great, if it had 2 or 3 ETH port's instead of just one I'd start using it instead of alix boards for my routers... anyhow if you need low power computer it's the best solution out there... you install what you want on it, you even have few gpio's you can control from your os...perfect.. hat off... for the price, it is the best solution out there... I just say - it's not a hackable board, you wanna make it yourself, you can't, you wanna use part of it in your board, you can't, you wanna make os your self, you can't ..  olimex boards on other hand are not nearly close to being "small el cheapo computer", but it is a perfect building block in your project that need a lot of number crunching power ...

So, to each it's own ... you can hack your pc if you want to, not a big problem .. it's similar "hackability level" as RPi .. so if you need a small general purpose or multimedia computer nothing can beat RPi in size, price nor performance (similar form factor machines), on the other hand if you want great embedded system you can hack and reproduce, current olimex boards are close, depending on the amount of documentation they can get to be perfect or completely flawed projects - time will tell

So if I wanted a cheap linux PC to compile / modify/ test some of the linux versions of the IR TOY apps and other DP projects would the R Pi be suitable?

[quote author="JTR"]So if I wanted a cheap linux PC to compile / modify/ test some of the linux versions of the IR TOY apps and other DP projects would the R Pi be suitable?[/quote]How about the VIA APC http://http://liliputing.com/2012/05/via-apc-a-49-android-computer-with-an-arm11-cpu.html ? Or the MK802 http://http://liliputing.com/2012/07/new-ubuntu-image-for-the-mk802-is-pretty-usable.html Agreed, that the MK802 has no I/O easily accessible. But it is a PC capable of running Linux (stock comes with Android ICS). So if you're comfortable working with Linux you can stick a USB HUB onto it and control several arduino 'slaves' :-)

I'm really thinking of buying the MK802 for $65, and then picking up an APC when it becomes available.

[quote author="JTR"]So if I wanted a cheap linux PC to compile / modify/ test some of the linux versions of the IR TOY apps and other DP projects would the R Pi be suitable?[/quote]
Yes, RPi (Model B) would do just fine for current DP Linux projects. However, you will have to build binaries for the RPi/BCM2835 since currently available Linux binaries for DP projects will most likely run on x86 based systems/distributions only. 

[quote author="arhi"]IIRC A13 has full documentation available only not in english, I might be wrong, that's the info I have in mind since day one and have no clue where I got it from (I hope it didn't come up just from wishful thinking of my own, but its possible)... [/quote]
arhi, I am afraid it's wishful thinking. at least for now ... as the full documentation remains to be made availabe to the public ;)

You may have read:

quoted from Rhombus-Tech (http://http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/):
"The critical decisive factor however was the immediate support of Allwinner's Board of Directors for releasing full GPL Source Code, to help the RHT Initiative to foster better relations and closer ties with Free Software Developers."

or:

quoted from Rhombus-Tech - Allwinner A10 (http://http://rhombus-tech.net/):
"Allwinner very graciously agreed to provide RH Technology with advance access to the GPL Source Code, which will be placed into the Rhombus git repository shortly."

However, if this will include the Mali-400 GPU documentation and the full GPU/codec driver source code remains to be seen.

Meanwhile the open source Lima driver project for Mali-200 and Mali-400 GPUs (http://http://limadriver.org/) makes good progress towards bringing all the advantages of open source software to ARM SoC graphics drivers. One way or the other A13 and A10 don't seem to be a bad choice when aiming for a true open source Linux/Android board with a Cortex-A8 SoC ;)

RPi, BeagleBone (even BeagleBoard and PandaBoard) and A13/A10-OLinuXino have one in common, proprietary 3D graphic engines (GPUs)
- A13/A10 have an ARM Mali-400 GPU that will power the A13-OLinuXino,
- TMS3359 a PowerVR SGX530 3D GPU (running the BeagleBone currently - and the TMS3358 that could be used instead) and
- BCM2835 a VideoCore 4 GPU

At least for now it would be rather surprising if ARM, PowerVR or Broadcom would release full details and driver source for their GPUs. It's NOT the fault of the board designers that none of the boards based on A13/A10, TMS3358/9 or BCM283x are not completely FREE (as in speech).

However, you can build iMX233-OLinuXino and A13-OLinuXino boards yourself (hardware and software - with the exception of the GPU driver libraries), modify/extend them, even for commercial projects. You can build BeagelBone boards - so it will be harder to get the components and assemble them - you can even modify/extend them but you couldn't use them commercially while there seems to be no way to build your own RPi hardware unless you tear the BCM2835 off some assembled board.

Each board was designed with a specific "community/user group" in mind. If you want 1024x768 or better VGA/DVI/HDMI video chose the one that fits your needs best but if they have a "closed" proprietary GPU they won't meet the FSF hardware endorsement criteria - at least not for now.

Afterthought: For RPi more and more expansion boards (http://http://elinux.org/Rpi_expansion_boards)  become available, like the Gertboard (http://http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/411). Some of the expansion boards give you more (indirect) GPIOs and most come with buffers or even opto-couplers protecting the RPi from sudden death ...

Anyway, I am inclined to agree with arhi that iMX233- and A13-OLinuXino boards are far more flexible when projects call for lots of directly controllable and fast GPIOs.

I agree with both arhi and ipenguin for the reason that you can roll your own iMX233- and A13-OLinuXino board if you wish, but no way for the RPi...

That being said, there is so much hype on the RPi... They are drawing so much attention on the Net among hackers that there is barely enough space left for other projects to exist.

As for me, I am ready to order asap the first free-GPU-based board around!

[quote author="IPenguin"]However, you will have to build binaries for the RPi/BCM2835 since currently available Linux binaries for DP projects will most likely run on x86 based systems/distributions only.[/quote]

RPi is cheaper but if you do not need gpio's (and for DP linux projects you don't) you can get a 100% x86 compatible board for ~100$, plug in the 12V and you have a PC (800MHz AMD with ram, ethernet, some with gpu some without, mini pci ...) check out ALIX boards, WRAP boards ... they are all in the 50-100eur range. Note they are without gpio (they have i2c and usually 8gpio's available and those are usually not even with soldered header so you have to solder it yourself) but they are super fast and 100% x86 boxes with many precompiled linux images, or you can install linux on them directly .. Compared to these ARM devices x86 compatible devices usually run from CF card and not SD


[quote author="IPenguin"]arhi, I am afraid it's wishful thinking. at least for now ... as the full documentation remains to be made availabe to the public ;)
[/quote]
not sure where I got that info exist only not in english ... will have to recheck..

Anyhow, from what I read the problem is with GPU, I do not care about gpu, no plans to play movies and R2R VGA output is more then enough for all I do as is mostly used only for debugging, if I want a mlatimudia device, I use a pc :) I have more enough of those around the house :D ... as for the indirect port expansion on RPi, I made a number of "port expansion" devices that talk to host via usb for different projects I used ALIX boards for, I need direct access too gpio, fast real time access... but that's just me :)

The only ARM SoC with a documented graphics core I know of is Samsung's S3C6410, and even then I'm not sure if the documentation floating around is leaked, or if it's enough to write an OpenGL driver.

i'm following this thread with interest :) 
cause i might want to have some arm board who can boot a small linux, have some GPIO and have good graphic
output really soon...
it is after all a product line at a good price that just begin  to open to a bigger segment of develloper :-) 
i wish to see also more high end mini boards , let say some multicore with gpu kind of ... 
of course there is still alot of problem with proprietary stuff but i wish to think we are heading in the good direction...   

 i just want to add that on the small side there's stuuff like the STM32F4 Discovery (and other similar small arm boards) with no linux or GPU, they are often hackable(GPIO) and sometime really inexpensive (i got my STM for free) and who can be powerful enough to do useful job and also blink leds too  ... :o)

stm32f4discovery is a great board but the arm on that board is actually very expensive (more expensive then that board itself!!)... but yes, cortex m4 is a powerful mcu... A7 and A9 cpu's are a whole another level and way more complex + way more powerful then cm4 mcu's :D on the other hand ... now, if you only wanna have "unix" on board, you can run linux on cortex m3 and m4 but it's very rudimentary (http://www.linux-arm.org/LinuxKernel/LinuxM3 (http://www.linux-arm.org/LinuxKernel/LinuxM3)) or you can use retro bsd (way better then linux on cortex m3 imo) on pic32mx http://retrobsd.org/wiki/hardware-2/ (http://retrobsd.org/wiki/hardware-2/)

[quote author="IPenguin"]
Afterthought: For RPi more and more expansion boards (http://http://elinux.org/Rpi_expansion_boards)  become available, like the Gertboard (http://http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/411). Some of the expansion boards give you more (indirect) GPIOs and most come with buffers or even opto-couplers protecting the RPi from sudden death ... [/quote]

My version will be here "soon" I hope.

I think R-Pi will be pervasive for a segment like Arduino. There are certainly technical advantages to other boards in some areas, no question but you could have looked at Arduino and laughed at the header arrangement or the price (I'll just breadboard a ATMega168 and use my serial port). But boards that reach a critical mass get an ecosystem.

When I was researching what volume of boards I might have to make for my ARM boards I looked at Sparkfun's stock every day for boards from Olimex and others, for complex ARM boards it was 1 or 2 a day. Meanwhile on launch day Newark's site was brought to its knees...

So with my engineering hat on I see lots of things I don't like with R-Pi, with my market hat on, I think it likely is going to create a space where it becomes the goto board for anything that needs a cheap small computer.

[quote author="Squonk"]...That being said, there is so much hype on the RPi... They are drawing so much attention on the Net among hackers that there is barely enough space left for other projects to exist.[/quote]
Thats not necessarily a bad thing. Any publicity that gets people interesting in making or hacking things can only be good.

Linus Torvalds spoke of this recently, I'm paraphrasing  here: "if 99% of new RPi buyers never use their RPi, that still leaves 1% who have done something with it. 1% who would never of bothered to make or build something themselves if it wasn't for the RPi"

Remember the Arduino did something similar not so long ago. The Ardunio was flavor of the month for a long time and still is in some respects but other projects managed to start, survive and flourish. Today there is a strong and diverse number of microprocessor and microcontroller projects for people to chose from.

Yeah, but I am sick of reading headlines describing how to make a cardboard case (http://http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/1310) or a filmsy case (http://http://hackaday.com/2012/07/05/flimsy-pi-case-still-provides-a-level-of-protection/) for the RPi...

In the said video (http://http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/tag/linus-torvalds), Linus is stating that  "I don't believe in a world where every child should be taught to program" and "not everyone has the ability to be a programmer, but if 1% of all Raspberry P.I. help these persons who has this ability to program to realize: Hey this is cool!, then great".

The perverse thing I foresee is that having almost disposable powerful computers, people will miss the uttermost important goal of efficiency, which makes a hack beautiful. As an example, you see more and more projects that use an RPi for "blinky" project, rather than trying to do the same thing with more adequate small microcontrollers. And in this sense, the RPi is distracting people from reality.

That said, the RPi is an interesting machine, despite its flaws: it is too slow for a desktop computer, has serious USB bugs and an inefficient linear power supply (not counting for the closed GPU/datasheet already mentioned above).

LAST MINUTE BREAKING NEWS:

My contact in China informed me of a new competitor for the RPi:



Here is a short list of the available features, but please check the product page from Rikomagic (http://http://rikomagic.com/En/productlist.asp?id=38):

• OS: Android 4.0
• Main Chip: Allwinner A10/ 1GHz Cortex-A8
• Memory: 512MB
• Storage: 4GB
• Graphical processor: 2D/ 3D/ OpenGL ES2.0(AMD Z430)/ OpenVG1.1(AMD Z160)@27M Tri/sec
• Network: Wireless 802.11b/g, WAPI（Ralink8188）
• Expand Memory: Micro TF 2-32GB
• IO/Ports: Micro 5pin USB/ USB2.0 data transfer/ OTG and host expand
• Keyboard: Support virtual keyboard, support 2.4G wireless keyboard, fly mouse
• Audio: AAC, AAC+, eAAC+, AMR-NB, AMR-WB, QCP, MP3, WMA, WAV, MIDI, M4A
• Video: WMV/ASF/MP4/3GP/3G2M4V/AVI/MJPEG/RV10/DivX/VC-1/MPEG-2/MPEG-4/H.263/H.264/1280*720P HD 30 fps, 1080P/720*480 D1 30fps
• Android APP: Youku,Tudou,QQ,Youtube,Twitter,AngryBird,Office,Gmail,Browse,Skype…………
• HDMI: 1080P&2160P
• Power Input: 5V2A
• Unit Size: 8.8*3.5*1.2cm
• Total Weight: 0.2kg

A very interesting video featuring the (poor condition) manufacturing is available on YouTube (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkR6_7cw4p8).

This board is available from AliExpress (http://http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/563764893-Freeshipping-Rikomagic-MK802-Mini-PC-Mini-Android4-0-dongle-android-IPTV-google-tv-smart-android-box-wholesalers.html) at $69.90, free shipping!

At IN4DEALZ.com tke MK802 sells for US$ 59.99 including international shipping (http://http://www.in4dealz.com/deals/MK802-Android-4-0-Mini-HD1080P-2160P-Thumb-Drive-Android-4-0-TV-BOX-IPTV-Smart-HD-Player-512MB-RAM-4GB-Memory-600017/)
- the deal is on for an other 2d 15h!
However, you may want to look for the MK802 version with 1GB RAM ;)
... and the MK802 has NO Ethernet and NO (accessible) GPIOs

The MK802 has been around for a few month. Even Linux ports are available by now.
However, the video performance (multimedia & 3D) under Linux is not as good as under Android:
- New Ubuntu image for the MK802 is pretty usable (http://http://liliputing.com/2012/07/new-ubuntu-image-for-the-mk802-is-pretty-usable.html)
- Linux central for MK802 (http://http://www.rikomagic.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90)

[quote author="IPenguin"]At IN4DEALZ.com tke MK802 sells for US$ 59.99 including international shipping (http://http://www.in4dealz.com/deals/MK802-Android-4-0-Mini-HD1080P-2160P-Thumb-Drive-Android-4-0-TV-BOX-IPTV-Smart-HD-Player-512MB-RAM-4GB-Memory-600017/)
- the deal is on for an other 2d 15h!
However, you may want to look for the MK802 version with 1GB RAM ;)[/quote]
Ok, thanks for the tip!

[quote author="IPenguin"]... and the MK802 has NO Ethernet and NO (accessible) GPIOs[/quote]
Yes, but it has Wifi, so Ethernet is not so much important. Of course, no GPIO given the small size... I was planning to hook up an USB-enabled microcontroller to expand GPIOs!

[quote author="IPenguin"]The MK802 has been around for a few month.[/quote]
From the video linked above featuring the developer, the first prototypes were finished in May! Preorders started June 7th. So I grant you one month, not a few ;)

[quote author="IPenguin"]Even Linux ports are available by now. [/quote]
... Since July 4th, so it's kinda hot from the oven!

[quote author="rohitdesa"]How about the VIA APC http://http://liliputing.com/2012/05/via-apc-a-49-android-computer-with-an-arm11-cpu.html ? Or the MK802 http://http://liliputing.com/2012/07/new-ubuntu-image-for-the-mk802-is-pretty-usable.html Agreed, that the MK802 has no I/O easily accessible. But it is a PC capable of running Linux (stock comes with Android ICS). So if you're comfortable working with Linux you can stick a USB HUB onto it and control several arduino 'slaves' :-)

I'm really thinking of buying the MK802 for $65, and then picking up an APC when it becomes available.[/quote]
Mine's already on the way from AliExpress :-) I will be using it primarily as an addition to my set top box. But I'm waiting for the VIA APC to release. That looks more hacker-type.

[quote author="Squonk"]My contact in China informed me of a new competitor for the RPi[/quote]
There's been tons of those Android HDMI dongles released lately. Many use the same Allwinner Soc, but some are using Cortex-A9s or Cortex-A5s. There's even a MIPS-based one coming soon. A few examples:

http://liliputing.com/2012/06/oval-elep ... linux.html (http://liliputing.com/2012/06/oval-elephant-71-pc-on-a-stick-runs-android-linux.html)
http://liliputing.com/2012/06/kimdecent ... d-4-0.html (http://liliputing.com/2012/06/kimdecent-offers-78-mini-pc-with-arm-cortex-a9-android-4-0.html)
http://liliputing.com/2012/06/geniatech ... ex-a9.html (http://liliputing.com/2012/06/geniatech-enjoy-tv-stick-atv100-android-pc-on-a-stick-with-arm-cortex-a9.html)
http://liliputing.com/2012/06/cx-01-53- ... stick.html (http://liliputing.com/2012/06/cx-01-53-android-4-0-pc-stick.html)
http://liliputing.com/2012/07/equiso-sm ... stick.html (http://liliputing.com/2012/07/equiso-smart-tv-69-android-powered-pc-on-a-stick.html)
http://liliputing.com/2012/07/ippea-tv- ... stick.html (http://liliputing.com/2012/07/ippea-tv-is-a-50-mips-based-android-4-0-pc-on-a-stick.html)

If you want something more complete, there's devices like the Mele A1000 (http://http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/254097/70_arm_pc_can_run_android_and_ubuntu_linux.html) or the Gooseberry board (http://http://gooseberry.atspace.co.uk/?page_id=13).

The Mele A1000 seems kickass! Better specs than the VIA APC. Granted that the APC is USD50, but with shipping it'll go to about 80 bucks. AliExpress has the Mele for about $100 including shipping. 20 bucks more for better features? Not bad....

[quote author="Squonk"][quote author="IPenguin"]The MK802 has been around for a few month.[/quote]
From the video linked above featuring the developer, the first prototypes were finished in May! Preorders started June 7th. So I grant you one month, not a few ;)[/quote]
You are right, first units became available for developers in June ... and it's a nice hackable device :)
A very affortable platform to gain experience with the A10 (and A13) SoCs.

... and here's the first hardware hack I have seen for the MK802: MK802 UART port (out only?) (http://http://linux-sunxi.org/File:Mk802_uart.jpg) :)

Who will be the first one to hook up his BusPirate (or any other UART adapter) and post a pic/screenshot?

Anyway, I don't consider the MK802 or any of the other A10 based thumb sticks or APCs as an alternative
to Raspberry Pi, at least not for the audience the Raspberry Pi is intended for ... but that's an other story.

Xmas in July?

[quote author="rohitdesa"][quote author="rohitdesa"]How about the VIA APC http://http://liliputing.com/2012/05/via-apc-a-49-android-computer-with-an-arm11-cpu.html ? Or the MK802 http://http://liliputing.com/2012/07/new-ubuntu-image-for-the-mk802-is-pretty-usable.html Agreed, that the MK802 has no I/O easily accessible. But it is a PC capable of running Linux (stock comes with Android ICS). So if you're comfortable working with Linux you can stick a USB HUB onto it and control several arduino 'slaves' :-)

I'm really thinking of buying the MK802 for $65, and then picking up an APC when it becomes available.[/quote]
Mine's already on the way from AliExpress :-) I will be using it primarily as an addition to my set top box. But I'm waiting for the VIA APC to release. That looks more hacker-type.[/quote]
Sorry, It looks like I missed that one!

Oh hey look another one (http://http://liliputing.com/2012/07/mini-x-tv-box-runs-android-linux-for-under-100.html).

... And Yahoo (Yet Another HDMI Output One, can't TM obviously)!

This time it's a MIPS-based USB dongle-like device, claiming:

Conventional ARM based Android devices draw around 700mA while iPPea TV Dongle only draws 350mA. It is half the norm.

They are on pre-order for $50 + $15 Intl' shipping on their website:
http://www.ippea.com/ (http://www.ippea.com/)

I will need to buy a few additional HMDI flat screen TVs if I want to test all these!

[quote author="IPenguin"][
... and here's the first hardware hack I have seen for the MK802: MK802 UART port (out only?) (http://http://linux-sunxi.org/File:Mk802_uart.jpg) :)[/quote]
Some more info on that:
https://www.miniand.com/forums/forums/2/topics/83 (https://www.miniand.com/forums/forums/2/topics/83)

Different site, though.

[quote author="rohitdesa"]Some more info on that:
https://www.miniand.com/forums/forums/2/topics/83 (https://www.miniand.com/forums/forums/2/topics/83)

Different site, though.[/quote]
Thanks, this answers the question if and where the input pin (RX) is on this nifty serial debug port. :)
The BusPirate can be used as a serial TTL to USB converter - example (BusPirate on NSLU2 serial debug port) here (http://http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=181#p1180).

Getting a BP is always a good idea, it is very useful for experimenting!

But if you want a more permanent setup where you don't want to  monpolize a BP, you can get a handful of cheap Nokia CA-42 USB data cables from eBay (http://http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290466006788) for $1.34/ea. + shipping.

The PCB is molded into plastic goo on the USB plug side. You don't have to, but if you remove it, here is what you will find:
[attachment=1][attachment=0]

These are ultra-simple Prolific PL-2303-based converters, just cut on the other side the Nokia funky connector, here is the pinout:

• Black =>GND
• Red => TXD (out from PC)
• White => RXD (in to PC)

Here are the drivers (http://http://www.prolific.com.tw/US/supportDownload.aspx?FileType=56&FileID=133&pcid=85&Page=0) (you will get an error, just use "guest"/"guest" as login/password).

---

Finally, a complete user's manual for the OLinuXiono-Micro board (http://https://www.olimex.com/dev/imx233-olinuxino-micro.html) has been made available.

... and Olimex started a "OLinuXino Open Source Developer Discount Initiative (http://http://olimex.wordpress.com/2012/07/09/olinuxino-open-source-developer-discount-initiative/)" a few days ago.

[quote author="IPenguin"]Finally, a complete user's manual for the OLinuXiono-Micro board (http://https://www.olimex.com/dev/imx233-olinuxino-micro.html) has been made available.

... and Olimex started a "OLinuXino Open Source Developer Discount Initiative (http://http://olimex.wordpress.com/2012/07/09/olinuxino-open-source-developer-discount-initiative/)" a few days ago.[/quote]
Thank you for the tips!

Mine is on the way, and I might have a project idea at least worth the 30% discount!

BTW, the Olimex iMX233-OLINUXINO-MICRO linux sold on eBay (http://http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=271014970007) raised from 19.95 GBP to 27.95 GBP (+40%) over the last few days...

It is now aligned with the price on Olimex website (http://https://www.olimex.com/dev/imx233-olinuxino-micro.html) (more or less, depending on shipping destination).

[quote author="Squonk"]BTW, the Olimex iMX233-OLINUXINO-MICRO linux sold on eBay (http://http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=271014970007) raised from 19.95 GBP to 27.95 GBP (+40%) over the last few days...

It is now aligned with the price on Olimex website (http://https://www.olimex.com/dev/imx233-olinuxino-micro.html) (more or less, depending on shipping destination).[/quote]
Hmmm, now I see where this thread's title is coming from - you got inspired by the product description on ebay.

Actually the current ebay price is 24% above Olimex regular list price for single qty (EUR 28,74) now
(don't forget to add 20% VAT to prices shown on the Olimex pricelist if the shipping address is within
the EU and you have no EU VAT-ID)!

(EUR 23,95 * 1,2 --> EUR 28,74 = 22,56 GBP <--> GBP 27,95 = EUR 35,60 - exchange rate: 0,785 EUR/GBP)

But then the UK is a funny place to order electronic/computer stuff/equipment from  anyway ...
prices tend to be 20% and up higher than in other parts of Europe/US ... at least for those living
in/buying from eastern/central Europe :P

[quote author="IPenguin"]Hmmm, now I see where this thread's title is coming from - you got inspired by the product description on ebay.[/quote]

Yes ;)

But given the feedback here, I should have put an "s" to "Alternative"!

[quote author="IPenguin"]Actually the current ebay price is 24% above Olimex regular list price for single qty (EUR 28,74) now
(don't forget to add 20% VAT to prices shown on the Olimex pricelist if the shipping address is within
the EU and you have no EU VAT-ID)!

(EUR 23,95 * 1,2 --> EUR 28,74 = 22,56 GBP <--> GBP 27,95 = EUR 35,60 - exchange rate: 0,785 EUR/GBP)[/quote]
For shipping to France from the Olimex website, I have a basket of 23.95€ + 5.50€ shipping + 5.89€ VAT = 35.34€ Total, and 35.61€ + 3.82€ shipping = 39.42€ Total from eBay, or +11%

[quote author="IPenguin"]But then the UK is a funny place to order electronic/computer stuff/equipment from  anyway ...
prices tend to be 20% and up higher than in other parts of Europe/US ... at least for those living
in/buying from eastern/central Europe :P[/quote]
Absolutely! But sometimes, you can find bargains too :P