Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arhi on October 31, 2011, 10:11:59 am
Post by: arhi on October 31, 2011, 10:11:59 am
I was thinking about making some breakout board in the "knife" style for the 100pin cpld, but I'm really not sure how many ppl would be interested. What I want to (and will as soon as I get some free time) is to make a 100pin breakout board that has 50+50 pins on SAME SIDE of the board. This way you can use 2 standard solderles protoboards and put them one next to another (short sides touching) and then push a board in them. You get 15 pins free on each side + you have second half of the breadboard free so much better imo then taking both sides of the breadboard ..
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arhi on October 31, 2011, 03:16:06 pm
Post by: arhi on October 31, 2011, 03:16:06 pm
The reason I like two boards lengthwise is because I have clearer view on the circuit that way. With current way when you have 2 proto's side by side it's not nearly as clear imo. I work with discovery boards that way and I hate it (Also for some reason discovery boards have big margin after pins so the pcb covers another row or two of holes).
As for "more power", yes, it makes me sad that I can't get a 64pin case with 200k gates for e.g. (fpga) but it is what it is...
btw most proto's I have are 64pins in length so a 64pin cpld should be easy proto board in "knife" configuration :D especially as I'd
- put DIP14 socket for oscillator on board, so osc pin is not braked out
- put decoupling caps and output only single gnd and power, maybe even put power regulator on board so you can power without taking care of the levels
- put jtag on board and not break out those pins too
that will save imo on average 64pin cpld min 7-8 pins if not over 10
As for "more power", yes, it makes me sad that I can't get a 64pin case with 200k gates for e.g. (fpga) but it is what it is...
btw most proto's I have are 64pins in length so a 64pin cpld should be easy proto board in "knife" configuration :D especially as I'd
- put DIP14 socket for oscillator on board, so osc pin is not braked out
- put decoupling caps and output only single gnd and power, maybe even put power regulator on board so you can power without taking care of the levels
- put jtag on board and not break out those pins too
that will save imo on average 64pin cpld min 7-8 pins if not over 10
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arakis on October 31, 2011, 03:59:45 pm
Post by: arakis on October 31, 2011, 03:59:45 pm
here is my initial interpretation of this, its a combination of a few ideas posted above.
the 64 pin are broken out down into a single line,, there are 64 columns in a standard breadboard. and the two 12pin headers on top are for additional breakouts if anyone wants to use them. They could be female type headers attached at 90 degrees, so those could be used as a breadboard in themselves.
the Power header is where input power is connected, along with various bank voltages
the 64 pin are broken out down into a single line,, there are 64 columns in a standard breadboard. and the two 12pin headers on top are for additional breakouts if anyone wants to use them. They could be female type headers attached at 90 degrees, so those could be used as a breadboard in themselves.
the Power header is where input power is connected, along with various bank voltages
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arhi on October 31, 2011, 04:13:13 pm
Post by: arhi on October 31, 2011, 04:13:13 pm
This board looks like perfect candidate for http://www.freerouting.net/index.php?page=eagle (http://www.freerouting.net/index.php?page=eagle) :D
btw, someone should check what are the "important" pins that should go to the bottom row. I'm not that experienced with cpld/fpga to do so but I know some pins have "Special" functions
btw, someone should check what are the "important" pins that should go to the bottom row. I'm not that experienced with cpld/fpga to do so but I know some pins have "Special" functions
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arhi on October 31, 2011, 05:05:50 pm
Post by: arhi on October 31, 2011, 05:05:50 pm
In theory altium can save dsn that one can import into freerouting and export as eagle :D ... now that's theory, I don't use eagne nor altium. Wrt "me", whoever makes it and provide gerber files, it's ok to me :D as long as I don't have to route those 100 pins :D. Also if anyone makes and sell's some of those pcb's at affordable price, again I'm interested ..
Wrt 4 layers I seen 100pin tqfp being broken out like this on 2layer board so I'm pretty sure a 2layers should be enough. There's even some TI's I used to use that are 100pin package pn a 3x3cm board !! 2 layers only !! So should be possible with only 2 layers
Wrt 4 layers I seen 100pin tqfp being broken out like this on 2layer board so I'm pretty sure a 2layers should be enough. There's even some TI's I used to use that are 100pin package pn a 3x3cm board !! 2 layers only !! So should be possible with only 2 layers
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arhi on October 31, 2011, 08:56:30 pm
Post by: arhi on October 31, 2011, 08:56:30 pm
4smd are easy but I think DIP14 oscillator should be used. This would allow super easy oscillator replacement and there is enough room on that board for it.
as for autorouting, as far as my experience with altium goes (both dxp2004 and v6) it will route that board on 2 layer without problem :).
as for autorouting, as far as my experience with altium goes (both dxp2004 and v6) it will route that board on 2 layer without problem :).
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: Nexus on October 31, 2011, 10:16:06 pm
Post by: Nexus on October 31, 2011, 10:16:06 pm
4 layer board of that size will be quite pricy for small runs. Neither seeed nor itead do 4 layers, though the latter is considering offering it in the future, dorkbot (http://http://dorkbotpdx.org/wiki/pcb_order) does three 4 layer boards for $10/in[sup:]2[/sup:]
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arhi on November 01, 2011, 04:16:29 am
Post by: arhi on November 01, 2011, 04:16:29 am
Quote
Gotta have a solder mask though. Soldering a 100-pin TQFP on a board without one is not my idea of fun!
There is a whole thread here on the forum (http://http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2931&p=28919#p28884) where brian (http://http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2427) tries to prove solder mask between pins does not help prevent solder bridges (he even made some tests and posted them on his blog). I do not agree with him but I can't say for sure I'm correct ..
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arhi on November 03, 2011, 11:02:59 pm
Post by: arhi on November 03, 2011, 11:02:59 pm
move P4 to the top of the board, it will allow for much easier routing :)
from what I c this is altium, it should have no troubles routing this with autorouter on 2 boards :D, just move p4 up so it does not need to interlace too many traces between p4 pins in order to reach p5
from what I c this is altium, it should have no troubles routing this with autorouter on 2 boards :D, just move p4 up so it does not need to interlace too many traces between p4 pins in order to reach p5
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arhi on November 04, 2011, 04:06:35 am
Post by: arhi on November 04, 2011, 04:06:35 am
you could upload the routed board (pdf, png .. maybe even original altium files) so we can see what it looks like :D ..
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arhi on November 04, 2011, 05:48:21 pm
Post by: arhi on November 04, 2011, 05:48:21 pm
Very nice Filip, you have enough room there to add some voltage regulator too :) ...
I notice that not only jtag is left but you have some power pins on the chip that you failed to route
I notice that not only jtag is left but you have some power pins on the chip that you failed to route
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arhi on November 05, 2011, 02:57:28 am
Post by: arhi on November 05, 2011, 02:57:28 am
I have some coolrunner2 dev board and it's very nice but the major issue I have with coolrunner is that darn thing is not 5v tolerable... compared to XC95 that is :)
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arhi on November 05, 2011, 03:00:17 am
Post by: arhi on November 05, 2011, 03:00:17 am
[quote author="arakis"]here is my interpretation of the same.
note that some caps are 0805, this is a mistake I will correct. only JTAG is left to be routed...[/quote]
here are some pics for those who don't like to run eagle just to see the boards :D ... I'd do the eagle up thingy for 3d but eagle up don't actually work on linux :( (no sketchup on linux)
note that some caps are 0805, this is a mistake I will correct. only JTAG is left to be routed...[/quote]
here are some pics for those who don't like to run eagle just to see the boards :D ... I'd do the eagle up thingy for 3d but eagle up don't actually work on linux :( (no sketchup on linux)
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arakis on November 08, 2011, 05:34:11 pm
Post by: arakis on November 08, 2011, 05:34:11 pm
thanks,
As for the time its difficult to say. This board took about 10h-16h to make from idea to gerbers. A few hours was spent on figuring out how to make the lib-model of the CPLD, it's the first time I used the technique of using a script to make the symbol from the bsdl file. 80% of the rest of the time was spent choosing which pins to connect on the schematic so that the pins align on the PCB. Actual routing took maybe 1-2hs. Btw I am a novice at this, I am pretty sure there are people here that could have done this in half the time.
As for the time its difficult to say. This board took about 10h-16h to make from idea to gerbers. A few hours was spent on figuring out how to make the lib-model of the CPLD, it's the first time I used the technique of using a script to make the symbol from the bsdl file. 80% of the rest of the time was spent choosing which pins to connect on the schematic so that the pins align on the PCB. Actual routing took maybe 1-2hs. Btw I am a novice at this, I am pretty sure there are people here that could have done this in half the time.
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arakis on November 09, 2011, 09:55:48 am
Post by: arakis on November 09, 2011, 09:55:48 am
I probably could have used the "signal" command in eagle to connect pins in the pcb layout editor, but I haven't figured out a way how to back annotate to the schematic the connections made in the PCB.
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arhi on November 13, 2011, 03:34:57 am
Post by: arhi on November 13, 2011, 03:34:57 am
beautiful :)
as for the lineup it's weird, I never noticed that and I often have boards with 50-64 pins plugged into 2 breadboards at once ... it is hard to push it in because lot of pins in same time need to go in but alignment is perfect ..
as for the lineup it's weird, I never noticed that and I often have boards with 50-64 pins plugged into 2 breadboards at once ... it is hard to push it in because lot of pins in same time need to go in but alignment is perfect ..
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arhi on November 13, 2011, 06:43:53 am
Post by: arhi on November 13, 2011, 06:43:53 am
hm, any idea what those 3m boards are made out of? What you just described sounds like HDPE ... nylon and ABS should not shring as much. I have few that are HDPE or even PP I'm not sure (and would have to cut out the piece in order to be sure) and they do shrink way more then the other ones (not sure what material they are made of - looks like bakelite).. but since I never allow temp in my work area to drop below 16C (usually 22-28) I never had the problem you do :)
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arakis on November 14, 2011, 04:46:55 pm
Post by: arakis on November 14, 2011, 04:46:55 pm
Here is a reworked version of the same
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arhi on November 14, 2011, 05:23:07 pm
Post by: arhi on November 14, 2011, 05:23:07 pm
except for 2 traces, if I c the board correctly all pins broken on the big SIL connector on the bottom have uninterrupted ground on the other side. The signals broken on the top of the board on DIL connectors on the other hand don't have uninterrupted gound plane behind them so those can't be used for fast signals
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arakis on November 14, 2011, 07:06:19 pm
Post by: arakis on November 14, 2011, 07:06:19 pm
cool, I didn't pay attention to that, I was just trying to have as little as possible of two signals crossing each other, on different planes of course. though all bottom pins over a huge ground plane, just before they are attached to the pins there is a break in the ground, this is of course not possible to avoid because of the through hole pin-headers, I could make SMD connections for the bottom pin-header that would fully comply with the before mentioned rule set.
From what I am aware that LDO has 150mA capability, I think there are 300mA LDO in the same package available..
PS. probably in a month a short supply will become available through our free pcb program, this is just a educated guess on my part, it could take longer then that...
P.S.S. I am not sure when and If we will be selling assembled versions, I'll ask Ian about it.
From what I am aware that LDO has 150mA capability, I think there are 300mA LDO in the same package available..
PS. probably in a month a short supply will become available through our free pcb program, this is just a educated guess on my part, it could take longer then that...
P.S.S. I am not sure when and If we will be selling assembled versions, I'll ask Ian about it.
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: jbeale on November 15, 2011, 01:31:42 am
Post by: jbeale on November 15, 2011, 01:31:42 am
slightly off topic- just looking at the LP2986 datasheet. I always thought lower was better for ESR, but was surprised to see that a ceramic cap may have too LOW an ESR for stability:
"Be warned that the ESR of a ceramic capacitor can be low enough to cause instability: a 2.2 μF ceramic was measured and found to have an ESR of about 15 mΩ. If a ceramic capacitor is to be used on the LP2986 output, a 1Ω resistor should be placed in series with the capacitor to provide a minimum ESR for the regulator." -from http://www.national.com/ds/LP/LP2986.pdf (http://www.national.com/ds/LP/LP2986.pdf)
"Be warned that the ESR of a ceramic capacitor can be low enough to cause instability: a 2.2 μF ceramic was measured and found to have an ESR of about 15 mΩ. If a ceramic capacitor is to be used on the LP2986 output, a 1Ω resistor should be placed in series with the capacitor to provide a minimum ESR for the regulator." -from http://www.national.com/ds/LP/LP2986.pdf (http://www.national.com/ds/LP/LP2986.pdf)
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: kmmankad on November 15, 2011, 10:01:14 am
Post by: kmmankad on November 15, 2011, 10:01:14 am
Awesome Routing work! I love the 'knife' form factor.I'll try and make the next revision of my PSoC3 board in that form :)
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: bdsmith on November 15, 2011, 11:31:20 am
Post by: bdsmith on November 15, 2011, 11:31:20 am
I like Jason's basic design - it brings out a bunch of i/o to a combination of connectors. The SIP header brings out lots of i/o but not so much that you would have trouble plugging and unplugging the board from the protoboard. The IDC type headers give you more i/o that might have a cable that goes to a second protoboard holding, maybe, some ram chips or a IDE interface you with to drive. If this was a production design, I would like to see the SIP connector holes left without a installed connector - and the user could put in a right-angle header if the project wanted the board to stand up in a protoboard - or the user could put in a straight header if the project wanted the board to lay flat while plugged into a protoboard - or the user could fill those holes with Arduino-type female headers for direct use of jumper wires or to hold a daughter-board.
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arakis on November 15, 2011, 11:48:49 pm
Post by: arakis on November 15, 2011, 11:48:49 pm
I've asked Ian about the assembled xc95144xl boards, in about a month there will be some free pcbs, a few months after that, If the design checks out ok, we'll start to sell them, assembled.
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arhi on November 16, 2011, 02:37:59 am
Post by: arhi on November 16, 2011, 02:37:59 am
wrt fpga there are few from gadget factory that are great (DP & GF worked together on the obls)
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/papili ... th=132_192 (http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/papilio-one-250k-p-809.html?cPath=132_192)
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/papili ... th=132_192 (http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/papilio-one-500k-p-811.html?cPath=132_192)
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/papili ... th=132_192 (http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/papilio-one-250k-p-809.html?cPath=132_192)
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/papili ... th=132_192 (http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/papilio-one-500k-p-811.html?cPath=132_192)
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: ian on November 16, 2011, 01:28:57 pm
Post by: ian on November 16, 2011, 01:28:57 pm
I think the power supply should be changed to 800mA/SOT-223 for best results.
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arakis on November 17, 2011, 04:05:54 pm
Post by: arakis on November 17, 2011, 04:05:54 pm
updated board
added the 800mA Vr, and made a sketchup model
added the 800mA Vr, and made a sketchup model
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arakis on November 17, 2011, 04:20:38 pm
Post by: arakis on November 17, 2011, 04:20:38 pm
added pinout text to the DC in and VIO headers
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: Crawford on November 23, 2011, 04:11:54 pm
Post by: Crawford on November 23, 2011, 04:11:54 pm
Filip - great progress - look forward to the boards. I was getting really excited about this project, then I realized you're using the 100-pin version of the XC95144XL. I need a CPLD with 5v tolerance and ~100 I/O pins and the XC95144XL-144 is what I had decided to start with. (The project is to emulate a DEC PDP-8 front panel). I guess I could use your design as a basis for a board with more pins.
-Crawford
-Crawford
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: gradstudentvt on November 30, 2011, 07:01:33 pm
Post by: gradstudentvt on November 30, 2011, 07:01:33 pm
Jason:
How far did you get with this breakout board? You know if there are any symbols/footprints for the XC95144XL ? Will it be for sale?
Thanks.
Ed
How far did you get with this breakout board? You know if there are any symbols/footprints for the XC95144XL ? Will it be for sale?
Thanks.
Ed
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: Sjaak on November 30, 2011, 08:36:12 pm
Post by: Sjaak on November 30, 2011, 08:36:12 pm
This board is on it way to our fab house (the version arakis did) and we hope to receive it back before Xmas. THe schematic and pcb (eagle format) you can find in this thread. In our svn we have the footprint for this CPLD.
Our library in the svn: http://code.google.com/p/dangerous-prot ... rt_Library (http://code.google.com/p/dangerous-prototypes-open-hardware/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk%2FEagle_Part_Library)
Our library in the svn: http://code.google.com/p/dangerous-prot ... rt_Library (http://code.google.com/p/dangerous-prototypes-open-hardware/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk%2FEagle_Part_Library)
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: vport on March 07, 2012, 11:36:40 am
Post by: vport on March 07, 2012, 11:36:40 am
HI i want to build my own board using xc95144xl but regulator available to me is LF33 NOT LP2986 CAN I USE THIS REGULATOR
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: arakis on March 07, 2012, 12:46:39 pm
Post by: arakis on March 07, 2012, 12:46:39 pm
[quote author="vport"]HI i want to build my own board using xc95144xl but regulator available to me is LF33 NOT LP2986 CAN I USE THIS REGULATOR[/quote]
The board we designed uses the LD1117S33 (3.3 regulator in the sot223 package), I think all SOT223 regulators have the same pin outs. But LF33 doesn't come in the sot223 package, If you are designing a board from scratch, any 3.3V regulator will work.
Just download our eagle files, and edit the voltage regulator you have
The board we designed uses the LD1117S33 (3.3 regulator in the sot223 package), I think all SOT223 regulators have the same pin outs. But LF33 doesn't come in the sot223 package, If you are designing a board from scratch, any 3.3V regulator will work.
Just download our eagle files, and edit the voltage regulator you have
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: alepmalagon on April 26, 2013, 06:59:40 pm
Post by: alepmalagon on April 26, 2013, 06:59:40 pm
[quote author="Crawford"]Filip - great progress - look forward to the boards. I was getting really excited about this project, then I realized you're using the 100-pin version of the XC95144XL. I need a CPLD with 5v tolerance and ~100 I/O pins and the XC95144XL-144 is what I had decided to start[/quote]
I also arrived here looking for an breakout for the 144 pins version :( . Anyway this board is a good start, hopefuly only with a few modifications and a footprint replacement it would work for me. In case of success i will post it in this thread.
Cheers!
I also arrived here looking for an breakout for the 144 pins version :( . Anyway this board is a good start, hopefuly only with a few modifications and a footprint replacement it would work for me. In case of success i will post it in this thread.
Cheers!
Title: Re: XC95144XL Breakout Boards?
Post by: Crawford on April 30, 2013, 01:06:59 pm
Post by: Crawford on April 30, 2013, 01:06:59 pm
Hi,
It's been a while since this thread started, and I haven't done much in regards to the 144-pin version of the XC95144XL breakout board.
I did find the 144 pin parts on ebay:
http://http://www.ebay.com/itm/260274177879?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Also, there are some generic breakout boards that look like they'd work:
http://http://www.ebay.com/itm/170919481418?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
That's as far as I got. No time for projects these days!
-Crawford
It's been a while since this thread started, and I haven't done much in regards to the 144-pin version of the XC95144XL breakout board.
I did find the 144 pin parts on ebay:
http://http://www.ebay.com/itm/260274177879?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Also, there are some generic breakout boards that look like they'd work:
http://http://www.ebay.com/itm/170919481418?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
That's as far as I got. No time for projects these days!
-Crawford