Can you go through the steps you use to check you "fiducials" on the board? I can't for the life of me get the laser crosshairs to show any time except at the origin (which I do from from the Manual tab). Otherwise I have the machine pretty well figured out I think, but it seems like no matter what I press or do I can't get that to work.
[quote author="bearmos"]The fact that the US can still compete on price at least on some level is encouraging to me. Are the same shops giving the really high quotes on the ENIG vs HASL, or are these coming from different manf?[/quote]
Same shops and different shops, ENIG in the US seems to get real expensive fast. My main US shop doesn't do ENIG in house so the added cost is fixed and they don't have much room to negotiate on it like they do with HASL, I wonder if that is the case for others as well.
I just got a quote for 2,000 1"x1" boards from a contact I work with a lot for Chinese production - $446 and same quote from a US board house was $284 - so really on somethings I have absolutely no incentive to have them made elsewhere - among small boards like these I have about 90% made in the US because the price is usually close or better. Big boards seems to be cheaper to have made in China, hands down - except when I get into 16"+ boards then most Chinese factories simply don't want the job.
What I've found generally is that the US manf. are going to be ROHS compliant by default, whereas most cheaper China PCB houses still have lead lines (I'm sure actual ROHS compliance varies greatly from fab-to-fab as well). Some/alot of people seem to be hung up on ROHS for hobby prototypes (which is crazy to me), so you might wind up loosing some orders in those cases.[/quote]
Surprisingly in all my PCB production - over 100,000 PCBs in the last 6 months alone - it has been easier to get China to do RoHS for a decent price then US companies, in fact, thus far all my US boards have been leaded HASL and all my Chinese made boards have been ENIG - this is the opposite of what I expected. Generally I am able to get close to the Chinese price in the US on HASL once you account for shipping and all that, but adding something like ENIG in the US often costs nearly $100 extra a panel and in China sometimes they throw it in for free or a small amount.
Wow that is quite the example - I knew your boards came out higher quality/tighter tolerances through my own trials of different services, but that is an excellent example!
I'm planning to run some test boards with whatever companies/processes I end up with on my short list to ensure I don't take their "capabilities" at face value, right now I'm leaning towards using a board house in California, simply because I've had the most experience with them.
Seeing this, I'm thinking maybe I'll run a test of ENIG and a test of HASL with each - that should be interesting to see - thanks for the insight!
I'm laying the ground work for a small order PCB pool service (similar to BatchPCB, OSHPark, Seeed Fusion, etc) aiming for the 3-6 board quantity and low prices on small boards. They will ship from Washington or California and I'm working with some PCB makers in China and California to see where it makes the most sense to have them made. Turn time will be 7-8 business days from when the panel is full. Basically I'm looking to keep my shipping line busy when not filling regular orders (for my company digistump.com), and of course expand the options for medium-turn cheap prototype boards.
Anyway - I've used services like this enough to know what I care about - price, consistent turn times, silk on both sides
But how important are RoHS/Lead Free finishes to people?
My choices have come down to ENIG or good old leaded HASL (with a significant price difference that would translate to about $0.50 to $1 more per inch). Now I know OSHPark is known for being ENIG, I also know that BatchPCB, Seeed, etc seem to all have a plenty big market offering HASL.
Does this matter when you pick a service? Do you think it is that important to most prototype-ers? What do you look for in a prototype service?
[quote author="digistump"][quote author="DwayneR"] I asked Mia from NeoDen if it was possible for them to include a PCB with placement file with my machine. She said "Yes". However, that doesn't mean that they were going to include a PCB and file with everybody's machine. I suspect that they simply didn't think of that. [/quote]
I specifically asked for it as well and was told "yes" - but no biggie, I'm just happy to have it. Once it hit DHL it only took 3 days.[/quote]
I actually found the test board attached to the outside of the crate under a bunch of tape!
Now I'm just trying to confirm whether I got the 120v version I ordered or a 220v version, given that it came with a 220v cord.
[quote author="DwayneR"] I asked Mia from NeoDen if it was possible for them to include a PCB with placement file with my machine. She said "Yes". However, that doesn't mean that they were going to include a PCB and file with everybody's machine. I suspect that they simply didn't think of that. [/quote]
I specifically asked for it as well and was told "yes" - but no biggie, I'm just happy to have it. Once it hit DHL it only took 3 days.
My 240A just arrived - initial impressions: package beautifully, I wish all the machines I get from China came like that. Missing example PCB that was suppose to be included. Has a 220 power cord. Otherwise looks good.
Folks who have these machines - any idea how to check if it is 120 or 220?
[quote author="ammsolutions"]Although some components appear to be placed crooked, a good reflow oven with accurate profiles will cause them to be pulled into place – we have this and it’s amazing how perfect finished boards look! [/quote]
Would you mind telling us what oven you are using with this? I have a TM240A for small production use on the way, I was part of the group buy here - but I"m still searching for an oven to use with it.
I've always used OSH Park for my non-quick turn needs (and Bay Area Circuits for quick turn panels) - but I have a few bigger prototypes and was wondering what kind of turn times people actually experience form seeed fusion? since I know many hear use it.
So if you don't mind:
When was your last order? How long did it take to ship? How long did it take to arrive and what country are you in?
I don't expect it to be fast - just curious what turns people see.
[quote author="sublime"] I recently purchased a $650 industrial hot plate but it is not as ideal as I thought it would be.[/quote]
How did the hotplate turn out to be less than ideal? I'm debating the T962A vs homemade PID controlled 24x24" hot plate right now for boards (panels actually) about 14x14" - it'd be great to hear why the hot plate isn't working out like you thought it would.
[quote author="macpod"]This does bring up something else I wondered about. Many fab/assembly houses will source parts for you. Have any of you had experience with this? I'm afraid they will go cheap (e.g. you really need a 1% resistor and you end up with 5%-10% instead.)[/quote]
I do a fair amount of production overseas and always use "Full turn key" where they source the parts, not only is it cheaper but importing can be a huge hassle, even something sent DHL/Express can get stuck in customs, or might need to be bounced through HK to avoid some of the taxes. Sometime the factory ends up ordering from Digikey for hard to find parts, and even with fast shipping it takes about two weeks once it bounces through HK to Shenzhen.
As far as quality - when I say a part has "no substitutes" they seem to take that seriously. Otherwise my 1% parts have always been 1% (the price difference is marginal for most things) - and when I inquired about the accuracy of one part they even tested 1% of each reel to ensure they had been sent good parts. Having produced in the USA and China - I've seen equal quality from each, though everything in China has taken more time - I think if choose your factory (or broker) carefully, look for one that is established and has really strong guarantees, and ask a lot of questions then full turnkey is no more risky then any other production.
[quote author="neslekkim"]Probably not the correct place, but I have been searching for a while after empty tubes which normally are used to hold IC's, typically DIP8-DIP20 and so on. I have bought lot of IC's of various kind, and all I get is either loose, or pushed into styrofoam, and I would like to use tubes instead. Or maybe there are better solutions? On ebay, when searching, I find only full tubes.. not empty ones.[/quote]
I throw out about 20 of these a day - the problem is they are so long to ship... If you want me to cut some down and send them to you I'd be happy to for the cost of postage. How many do you need?
