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Messages - RRRoamer

1
Project logs / Re: Really universal soldering controller
Check D11, 12 and R10. Without Q5 installed check the voltage at K of ZD1 ( 6V ). Replace Q5

Thank you Sir!  When I got home, I sat down and traced the voltages through this part of the circuit from both Vins back through each pin of each deviced and worked out what it SHOULD be.  When I got to the R10-ZD1 node, I was seeing ~32V.  From inspection, it looks like I installed the right value R10 (10K), but in a smaller 0603 package instead of the correctly sized 1206 package.  I don't think this made ANY difference at all, but I did replace it with the correct (and on hand) resistor.

I think the root cause was a bone headed mistake: When I measured the voltage across ZD1 and ZD2, I was getting 15V...  And I DID order extra 15V zeners for ZD5.  I'm pretty sure I put 15V zeners in here instead of the correct 3V zeners.  That WOULD have a bit of an impact.  I did check to ensure that I also had a correct 15V zener at ZD5, and that all looks great.

With this done, it is up and running exactly like it should.  And on DC OR AC input.  Thanks for the help everyone.  I really do appreciate it!

Regards,

RRRoamer
2
Project logs / Re: Really universal soldering controller
Sorry for the delayed reply.  I'm on business travel this week, so won't be able to get back to the hardware until Saturday at the earliest.  I'll answer what I can below.

So, the controller restarts gracefully, showing the "Power lost" message?

Yes.  Powers up.  IDs iron.  Turns on heat.  Power lost and reboot.  2.62 seconds between events.  Works perfectly fine if powered from DC supply, even at 30 volts (test).  Without Q5 installed, works perfectly on AC as well.

Also it should detect DC supply instead of AC, isn't it?

I'm not sure.  Bottom left corner of display next to the power bar?  I'll check when I get back.

It's because at the fuse, you're measuring rectified but not smoothed DC (basically same as AC on the transformer, minus bridge drop), smoothed wave on C8 will be √2 times higher (minus D6, Q1 drop).

Also check R9, it have seen some overload, may be damaged.
minkok is absolutely right, should be the zeners, maybe a cold joint.

I'll double check everything minkok pointed out when I get back home.  I've checked the orientation of the diodes a half dozen times so far, but that doesn't mean I didn't miss something.  I'll pull out the microscope and make sure the items minkok mention are good.  I'll replace them with my "spares" if I don't find anything out of order.
3
Project logs / Re: Really universal soldering controller
Progress: I pulled Q5 and it works like a champ on AC or DC.  I put my meter on pin 1 of the base of Q5 and read 30.2VDC, 0 VDC on the emitter and 32.2 VDC on the collector (well, the PADS where the BEC would sit at any rate).  I found this very interesting given that I was only measuring 22VDC at the fuse (same ground reference on all measurements, anode of D4).

Why in the world would I be seeing 10+ more volts here than incoming?  And how?

Without (what I BELIEVE) is overvoltage protection, it works like a champ.  Any ideas on where to look for the actual problem?

Thanks!

RRRoamer
4
Project logs / Re: Really universal soldering controller
So, I decided to test all the bridge diodes by bypassing them with a commercial bridge rectifier I had laying around.  600V and 25A should be big enough.  I injected the rectified DC right at the fuse (and just past the fuse for good measure) and got the exact same results as with the build in bridge: voltage crash and reboot.  All the while, the input voltage at the transformer behaving exactly like what I would expect with only a small drop in output voltage when the heater is enabled.

To me, that rules out pretty much everything up to and including the fuse.  I thought about lifting one leg of the TVS.  It sounds like they can get into weird failure modes that would cause something like this, but I doubt it.  On the "well, the AC input voltage is actually higher than my power supply" front, I turned up the voltage to 30VDC and it behaved exactly like I expected: smoothly ramped up to temp with NO strange things going on with the power rail.

This truly makes NO sense to me at this time.  I really hope I eventually get one of those "AHAH!!!!" moments to make it worth wile!
5
Project logs / Re: Really universal soldering controller
That wave is weird. Where do exactly you measured it? For a transformer output it's much like a DC wave with ripple, for board DC supply input it has too much of ripple. Maybe D6 is busted?

Agreed.  I thought it was strange the first time I looked at it too.  I hooked the scope up right at the rectified output, the anode of D4 (GND) and on the fuse (output side).  It has that same "bumped" output when there is no iron connected as well.  I just put the cursors on it and it is right at 120Hz (8.32ms) from pulse to pulse.  When I hook it up to the DC supplies, the input is just boring.  Not huge drops (1/10V or so as the heater is turned on).  How can it act like there is either a HUGE resistance in the AC input or a HUGE short in the heater output when powered by AC, but act like everything is perfect when running from a DC supply?

Oh, and I went ahead and replaced D6.  No change. 

(edit) I also had the bright idea of looking at the AC input to the board (see attached file tek00004.png).  I can see a small blip in the voltage (3.2V peak) as the heater is turned on, but the input is NOT crashing in any way.  Could I have a bad rectifier diode?  When I diode test them they all are showing around .32V forward voltage in diode test mode.
6
Project logs / Re: Really universal soldering controller
After an extended hiatus from uniSolder, I've jumped back in.  Somehow, I had managed to damage the quad nor gate and it was leaving heater 1 on full and heater 2 on at about 16V with a ~1.2V input to the FET.  Pretty easy to trace that back to the logic gate when you measure 1.2V on an output of a gate with a 3.3V supply.

After fixing that, I was back to my original issue from when I first built it (A year ago I'm sad to say!): It properly detects the sense resistors I've picked for Weller WP80 handle and starts to heat it.  Then it immediately resets due to power loss.  The scope on the power rail shows it is real.  The nice, stable power immediately spikes down to about 4V or so before the uniSolder resets, turning off heat and rebooting.  Once it reboots, it IDs the iron and turns on the heater again, just to kill the supply and start the loop over once more.

I've attached a picture of the scope capture of the transformer crash.

If I power it from a 3A linear supply (specifically, GwInstek GPS-3030DD), it pegs the supply at 3 amps but DOES heat up nice an quick to the target temp and then holds (still need to refine the sensor parameters, but it is good enough to solder with).  I've verified the heater resistance of 6.9 ohms at room temperature (which works out to a little over 83 watts (80 watt iron, so...).  Given the uniSolder is more than capable of driving an 80 watt iron on 24V, I'm at the head scratching stage.  (And just for fun, I hooked up the other supply in parallel and uniSolder is pulling right at 3.2A while the iron is cold and then drops down to less than .1 A when the iron is up to temperature)

Is the output shorting with something when it is turned on?  It did the same thing with a bread board and a big resistor instead of an iron, so I don't think it is the iron or my connection (never say never of course).  Do I have an issue with power caps on this board?  The fact that a 160VA transformer is dropping from ~24V down to 4V says SOMETHING is taking a LOT power when the heater is first turned on.  I'm not seeing the DC supply(s) acting like they are shorted, but it might be too fast for them to notice it due their input and output capacitance.

Has anyone seen this type of behavior before?  Or does anyone have any idea of where to look for a solution?  I'm hoping to get it resolved BEFORE I manage to kill any other hardware with a misplaced probe...

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!

RRRoamer

7
Project logs / Re: Really universal soldering controller
I would like to correct myself rewiring to switch the pump, it is not Brown and Purple but Blue and Purple.
Blue and Purple = 44K OHM  OPEN and when you press the button = 6.3R OHM, This is for the DSX80.

As always care while playing with voltages in most cases you will have only one chance and I was super close to blowing the Unisolder applying 22v to the PCB killing the switch and the components it has hidden inside somewhere which are 2 Inductors 100Uh, a capacitor 1nf  and a 44k Resistor.

Hope it helps @RRRoamer no doing my same mistake.

LOL!  Unfortunately, I'm DOA until my next Digikey order arrives.  I managed to smoke Q1 while trying to figure out why transformers won't work (I tested a few more I had, all did the same thing...) but power supplies will work.  Something is drawing a LOT of current when the heater 1 is activated.  I probably should do a bit of data logging to figure out what is really going on.  I'm starting to think I was seeing an artifact of sampling when I had the transformer hooked up to the eload.  I really should have hooked it up to the scope as well to see what it was actually doing.

Oh well!  I've got a few days until the parts come in, so I guess I can get that done and have a clearer picture before I start soldering again.

One question for sparkybg: If the purple wire is using the heater blue wire as the voltage supply, will that cause any problems reading the sensor if the button is pressed during a reading?  From looking at the wiring diagram, I don't think it would given heater + is only connected to heater + unlike heater -. 

But I just blew Q1 while trying to figure out why mine keeps resetting when powered from a transformer but not when powered from a power supply...

Oh, and tronix, I am thinking of doing something stupid complex for vacuum control because I have the parts.  Many moons ago, I ended up with some brand new 24V vacuum solenoid values.  They are relatively huge (1/2" I/O).  And, I have a couple of vacuum pumps laying around from assorted projects.  My thought was to make a controller that ran the pump to maintain a certain vacuum level in a storage container (I ended up with some very nice digital vacuum sensors as well) and then have the controller open the solenoid when the button is pressed.  No ramping up of vacuum, so the solder in the holes should get hit pretty hard and fast.  No way would I do this if I had to buy these parts, but I already have them, so that changes the math dramatically.

And looking at the schematic, it looks like there are several unused I/O pins on the PIC, so it would be possible to update the firmware so it set one of these pins high when my vacuum desoldering iron was connected so the vacuum pump wouldn't waste time running when a regular iron was connected instead.
8
Project logs / Re: Really universal soldering controller
@RRoamer: these glitches are normal (you are not using toroidal transofmer, right?) Check the VIN and VINT signal at the MCU end.

The profile you put together is function and is actually completely usable as is.  There are only a couple of improvements I want (because I wouldn't have build the uniSolder if I wasn't picky after all!):
  • The 20 to 25C overshoot when first turning on the iron is a bit irritating, but completely livable.
  • The much smaller (5 to 6C) overshoot when the temperature (while the iron is just resting and not soldering) is a bit more bothersome.  But again, definitely livable!
  • The bigger issue is it is about 25C below the indicated temperature.

To measure the temperature, I used little thermocouple base temperature measurement system.  The probe on it has been calibrated with an ice bath and at boiling water temps (only around 93.5C up here near 6000ft/1829m) and appears to be very accurate in that range, but I don't have the tools to calibrate it at any higher temperature (at the Primary Standards Laboratory at work, yes.  But unfortunately...) here at home.  I used a very small TC tip (just the spot welded ball) and it was tracking the uniSolder up and down VERY closely, just about 25C lower than uniSolder indicated.  Recommendations on the proper way to go about reworking the profile parameters to dial this in would be greatly appreciated.

One question on the PID parameters and their sensitivity:  What magnitude would you consider a "big" change?  For example, while playing with the PID, I changed the PID_D term from 30 to 35 and then eventually up to 45 with some, but limited results.  Changing the PID_P term from 0.2 down to 0.15 in several steps didn't seem to make much difference on the overshoot either.
[/list]
9
Project logs / Re: Really universal soldering controller
The (brand new) transformer is definitely toast.  It is happy unloaded and VERY lightly loaded.  I hooked it up through a rectifier bridge to my electronic load.  Open circuit, all was happy.  As soon as I turn on a 1000 ohm load, the voltage and current started bouncing around on the load.  I guess the super low load of unisolder NOT powering a heater (4 to 5 mA is what I was seeing on my supply) was low enough not to mess it up.  Oh well.  Time to call Digikey.  They have always been fantastic to work with in the past and I bet this time will be no different.
10
Project logs / Re: Really universal soldering controller
I did indeed misunderstand you!  However, I think the problem is on my back board.  I hooked it up to the scope on the 24VAC input and was getting glitches on the power as soon as it tried to power the iron.  It looks like something is shorted in the iron power circuit so as soon as it applies power to the heater, it dies.  Now I need to spend some quality time with the schematics and perhaps the microscope to see what I messed up.

tronix,

You where right on the money!  I hooked up my 30V/3A supply to it (at 24V) and it worked like a champ!  That transformer is a new transformer I bought just for this project.  I guess I need to dig into the wiring of this thing (it is going through a terminal strip) and see if I messed something up in my rush to hook it up originally.  Always a probability.

And just for fun, I decided to hook my pair of GPS-3030DD supplies up in parallel to give it full juice and they are only pulling around 1.56A each, so I was JUST under the limit with a single supply.

So as for the profile, I will need to do some testing to see how the temperature regulation is working.  I do know it is overshooting by about 25C from start up and it appears to overshoot a bit ever time it drops below the set point and fires up the heater.  For example, it will drop down to 298 (300 set point), the heater will hit fairly hard and it will jump up to 306, then fall down and then below the set point to start the cycle all over again.  A bit of tweaking the PID parameters should clean that right up.

Now, I can wire up both irons (WP80 soldering iron and DXV80 desoldering iron) to the proper connectors and get serious about finishing this up.

Just as soon as I figure out what is going on with the transformer of course.

And a huge "THANK YOU!" to everyone that has posted comments helping me out on this project so far.  It is greatly appreciated!
11
Project logs / Re: Really universal soldering controller
I am not sure you understand what I mean, give Unisolder 24VC DC and see if you replicate the issue not the iron itself.
RePower supply minimum suggested is 24V @ 5AMP which is 30V @ 4AMP.

Glad you make work the compiler V3 but 2.50 work perfectly with no warnings/errors as suggest by Vulkan35 but as long you see build success I guess it should be fine.

@afedorov Thanks for sharing.

I did indeed misunderstand you!  However, I think the problem is on my back board.  I hooked it up to the scope on the 24VAC input and was getting glitches on the power as soon as it tried to power the iron.  It looks like something is shorted in the iron power circuit so as soon as it applies power to the heater, it dies.  Now I need to spend some quality time with the schematics and perhaps the microscope to see what I messed up.
12
Project logs / Re: Really universal soldering controller
afedorov,

Thank you!  I will give this a try and see if I can get it compiling with the free xc32 v3.00 version this afternoon and report back.

Well, seeing as I AM sitting in front of my computer, I decided to quickly edit the configuration and give it a try.  I'm VERY happy to say those two changes got it working with xc32 v3.00.  Still have lots of warnings due to "void" argument types being passed something else.  But it compiles successfully!  Thank you!
14
Project logs / Re: Really universal soldering controller
@RRRoamer  Before doing any testing with the scope: 

Re-wiring make sure the wire you use is good for the current you have mine draw 3.2 amp from cold, I notice you connected the black to Vout1-.

Vout1-&+ should be for the power heater, if the jumper wire you use is good enough for the current then it does not matter since they are shorted.

If the wiring is fine what about using a bench supply with DC will it do the same?

tronix,

It works fine one the bench supply, but I can only bring it up to 3.19A as that easy to use linear supply is only rated at 30V/3A.  But up to 3.19A/19.7V, everything is behaving normally and the iron gets up to solder melting temperatures in 14-16 seconds or so as expected.

As for the wire, 24 awg is rated for 3.5A for chassis wiring, so the 24 awg jumper wire I am using is more than sufficient (it is larger wire than the cable on the iron).
15
Project logs / Re: Really universal soldering controller
Then, at 0 degrees celsius it should be around 20 ohms. Then c0 should be -20.

c1 = 1/0.077 = 12.98, make it 13.0

The currentA shoud be around 1.8mA, then CBandA shoud be 0 instead of 1, and CurrentA should be 37.

Offset is a bit harder. 1.8mA * 60ohms * 27 = 2.916V after the first amplifier, which means the second one's gain should be around 1, which in terms of iron profile is 256/27 = 9.218 = 9.0, which is too low.

Now instead of using 37 for the current, we use 24, and the current becomes 24*(1.225/100/256) = 1.148mA

Then 60*1.148ma*27.77 = 1,913V after the first amplifier, but this includes also the offset from the 20ohms at 0 degrees. If the offset was not there, the foltage is 40*1.148mA*27.77 = 1,275V. These 1,275V represents 500 degrees at the sensor, and shoud be amplified to 3.0V by the second amplifier, so the gain should be 3/1,275 = 2,353, which in terms of iron profile gain is 2.353/(27/256)=22.

Now the offset in the profile shoule be 20 ohms * 0.001148 * 27.77 * 27*(22/256) * 1024/3 = 505.12 = 505.

So:

CBandA = 0;
CurrentA = 24;
Gain = 22;
Offset = 505;
c0 = -20;
c1 = 13;

This is just an approximation, of course. It takes some experiments until everything gets right.

So some progress.  I got tired of fighting with the hundreds of warnings and linking errors with 5.45 + 3.00 + legacy peripherals, so I installed xc32 1.33 and went ahead and activated the 60 day pro trial.  It complied with no warnings first try of course!  So, I added the following iron.c profile:

Code: [Select]
    {
        0,
        {0x0318},
        "WELLER WP80             ",
        {
            {
                {
                    {                          
                        SENSOR_PTC,             //Type
                        0,                      //HChannel
                        1,                      //InputP
                        0,                      //InputN
                        1,                      //InputInv
                        0,                      //CBandA
                        1,                      //CBandB
                    },
                    24,                         //CurrentA
                    0,                          //CurrentB
                    22,                         //Gain
                    505,                        //Offset
                    {                           //TPoly
                        -20.00,                 //c0
                        13.0000000,             //c1
                        0,                      //c2
                        0,                      //c3
                        0,                      //c4
                        0,                      //c5
                        0,                      //c6
                        0,                      //c7
                        0,                      //c8
                        0                       //c9
                    },
                },
                0,                          //HRCompCurrent
                0,                          //WSLength
                30,                         //PID_DGain
                (UINT16)(0.2 * 32768),      //PID_KP
                (UINT16)(0.008 * 32768),    //PID_KI
                4,                          //PID_OVSGain
                80,                         //PID_PMax
                80                          //PID_PNom
            },
            {{{0}}}
        },
        NULL
    },

Because I already had the 120 and 5.6k resistors soldered to the ID pin, I just swapped them for id1 vs id2.  If I read the resistor excel sheet correctly, that should be a valid combination without using any of the reserved resistor/pin combinations.  And it did work!  At least as far as loading the correct iron profile as "Weller WP80" was displayed.

Then it got interesting.  As soon as unisolder would try to apply power to the iron, it would beep and say power was lost.  It would then come back up, ID the iron, apply power (I could see the power meter flip over to full power for a fraction of a second before it reset), then start all over again.  The input voltage from the 120VA 2 x 12V (in series for 24V x 5A) transformer would dip just a bit on the bench meter every time power was turned on (I think I saw a low of 23.8V).  The 3.3V rail was steady as a rock the whole time.

Just to make sure the heater was ok, I hooked the iron up to one of my bench DC supplier and it was pulling 3.19A at 19.6V, so that sounds about right and is definitely not a short. 

I'll hook it up to the scope tomorrow to get a better "picture" of what is actually going on with supply and 3.3V rails.  Question: How is the powerlost flag determined?  It looks like it is being measured in OnPowerLost ISR, but I haven't figured out exactly what that is actually measuring to trip that flag.

From my multiple reading of the Weller WSP80 iron connections listed in Sparkybg's GITHUB, this is the wiring diagram I have come up with (see attachment).  But I don't trust it at all!

Any suggestions on where to look?

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