The worry is that even if I start at 150c, and my c1 is way out, it could overshoot past 450c while showing < 150c. Being so fast to heat up I might not catch it in time before damage is done.
I'm hoping that if I can understand c1 better, I can use the two fixed melting points to adjust c1 until the curve matches at least those two points.
So, my next step is to start trying to read the code to see how c1 is used so I might then get a clue as to where c1 comes from and thus get a good starting point for the c1 and the T30.[/quote]
Yes you have reason to worry about, see JBC C245 C1 and ( C210 C1 and micro tweezers C1 ), what you can see 3x difference - they use different thermocouples, but that is different brand. Don't forget for the Gain, gain and C1 are related to the thermocoule. If hakko uses different thermocouples also it will be hard to get proper value for T30 C1, but you could see it from the beginning, let say you start from 80 - 100C* and I expect max difference to be not more than 30C*, if you increase to 150C* and they use different thermocouple, expected themp. shouldn't exceed 60C*, but is only suggestions. You need extra at least 5 bucs control thermometer ( error 2-3 C* ) firmly connected to the tip. But if they use the same thermocouple, no C1 change, only need to check for over, undershooting and little align PID values if need. Forget for a 2 point match, it is not a straight line . And is not so easy.
Hello DinikS, sparkybg wrote ' The intention was to build the most universal soldering controller I can think of. It can drive any low voltage (upto 24V) iron with thermocouple or resistive sensor, in series with the heater, or separate.
Here is a short list of features: - power: 9-28V, AC or DC ' but it will decrease the performance of JBC cartridges, less power, longer time for heating, poor recovery reaction - not applicable for big cartridges you have. But is not so bad for JBC 245 especially 18V/ 3.7 ohm= 5.29A around 103.7W , not quite bad really, as we know sparkybg limited mosfet current to 6A.[/quote] Hi Minkok, thanks for comments. I'll get this transformer and try[/quote]
[quote author="DinikS"]Hi guys, What do you think is it possible to use transformer 18V 6A? I'm not sure about that because sometimes I use tips like attached below. (in the center)[/quote]
Hello DinikS, sparkybg wrote ' The intention was to build the most universal soldering controller I can think of. It can drive any low voltage (upto 24V) iron with thermocouple or resistive sensor, in series with the heater, or separate.
Here is a short list of features: - power: 9-28V, AC or DC ' but it will decrease the performance of JBC cartridges, less power, longer time for heating, poor recovery reaction - not applicable for big cartridges you have. But is not so bad for JBC 245 especially 18V/ 3.7 ohm= 5.29A around 103.7W , not quite bad really, as we know sparkybg limited mosfet current to 6A.
I'm not so sure you are right here. The iron only uses max wattage to reach the desired temperature, after which it typically uses less than 10W to maintain it. If my c1 is way out my station could think it's on the ramp up to say 250c where the tip is really ramping up past 450c and at the speed this thing works, I'd be hard pressed either to notice or stop it.
So I feel I really need a better understanding of c1 and it's cohorts before I go plugging the T30 in.[/quote]
If you are able to make a plan for proper and safe way of the calibration, you will made it without of problems. At the high point 450C, you have a risk for overheating, if you keep it for a long period of time, but who starts from there or from the middle and as I remember , I advised you to connect a thermometer to the tip to observe constant the temperature and also to make a little changes to C1. You need also a proper calibrated thermometer ( the deviation of temp. should be around 1C* trough whole curve of your T30 and after that you need to proper fix your curve to the some melting point ) Anyway in my opinion is better to wait sparkybg to make the application or ask him to do it for you.
I think it does not mattered so much, if you calculated resistant and power: 24V devided at 12 Ohm = 2 a, 2x2x12=48W you cannot overheat. Anyway you can set 50-50. C1 is not related to any of PID values for overshooting and it is a constant that influence over how close is real temp. over displayed one[/quote]
So c1 is just a fixed offset ? I thought if fed into some kind of complicated polynomial math that was used in the calculation of the actual temperature which is what it then displays.
Mmmm well I have some 100%Pb for calibration and a T15 to test with that I don't mind killing. I will see what temperature the lead melts and re-forms at with the standard c1, then I will build a new firmware with a big difference in the c1 value and repeat the procedure.
If c1 is a constant I should see that in the different temperatures reported +/- 10%. I do however get the feeling that it isn't that simple and that there is probably some kind of logarithmic progression to the c1 values.
---> Off to experiment......[/quote]
You can overheat only if you have a problem with mosfets ( but for that pensil, it takes a time ), the time they are ok you are safe, but connect to the tip temp. sensor to be able to observe the tip temp. constantly even with error. Do not use big values for changing, do it for the first time with a small and see the difference and you can approximate. If you can wait, sparkybg mention that when he has a time will add to PC software an application for adding a different irons. And you are right about " I thought if fed into some kind of complicated polynomial math that was used in the calculation of the actual temperature which is what it then displays." , only my explanation is a simple.
A Pmax of 60 sounds dangerously high given that the T30 tips are only rated to 48. At least that is if Pmax is in watts - which I think it is as the T15's Pmax is 70 which matches it's wattage. This is why I said that I thought that a Pnom of 38 to match a Pmax of 48 would be ok.
It sounds like I am right to be concerned about the c1 value as getting it wrong could lead to massive overshoot and the potential for tip destruction if it is heated too much too fast.
I'm not unwilling to experiment, I would just like a better understanding before I risk this kit which I cannot afford to replace.[/quote]
I think it does not matter so much, if you calculated resistant and power: 24V devided at 12 Ohm = 2 a, 2x2x12=48W you cannot overheat. Anyway you can set 50-50. C1 is not related to any of PID values for overshooting and it is a constant that influence over how close is real temp. over displayed one. And you are completely right, 3 times measure, ones cut.
[quote author="GuruMeditation"]Ok so I've taken what I've found so far about the T30 tips and tried to "fill in the blanks" for an iron.c profile. I am left with 2 variables that I have no idea where to get the values from and 6 that are guesswork.
The guesses are : HRCompCurrent : 10 Gain : 100 PID_Gain : 2 PID_KP : (UINT16)(0.12 * 32768) PID_KI : (UINT16)(0.0015 * 32768) PID_OVSGain : 3
My unknowns are : c1 PID_Nom
For PID_Nom I have three possible values that could be right (38,41 and 48). What causes this confusion is that the T15 profile on which this is based is the only profile where PID_NOM does not equal PID_PMax.
Without trying to read the code, I'd guess that PID_Nom is the nominal operating wattage, the level that the iron is happiest at and that at least for testing, setting it to 38 shouldn't hurt. (famous last words).
This leaves c1........ Anyone know how c1 is calculated ?[/quote]
Hello GuruMeditation, I think is a right choice to start from T15. I can give you my suggestions only to start from. The parameters start with PID are for PID algorithm, I would't suggest to change them except Pmax - 60, Pnom - 50. Most important are Gain - 100 and C1 - 50.1 - some polynomial coefficient, it can be explained truly only from sparkybg. Gain gives you how to be amplified the Vtemp to get proper value for Vadc for ADC and C1 gives you the proper curve ( you can adjust by measuring real temp. of the tip and compare to display value. As I said before that is only suggestions to start from.
So far all I've found is that the tip resistance on the T15s is 8 Ohm but the T30s are 12 Ohm (both with 10% tolerance) and the T15s are 70W but the T30s are 48W.
[/quote]
Hello GuruMeditation, As I know my original Hakko 888D is 65W rated and resistance is around 4.7 Ohm and heats up for 27s to 350C*. When I built the unisolder, I ordered chinese Hakko 907 with the same specs ( only length of the wire is 1m ), just for alignment. It is connected to the station like FX8801 and performs the same like original Hakko station only for 6 us with delivery. It is better to go with 80W handle with much better thermal recovery response or FX8801 is also not bad option and better choice than any 48W handle and has the same tip options like T30
[quote author="minkok"]Unfortunately the current firmware dos not support quick tip exchange, needs of power cycle to be able to recognize replugged tip on the stand.[/quote]
I want to clear the mistake I did, It does not support QTE ( quick tip exchange ) only for a hot cartridge, for a cold one it works on the tip supporter exchange plate also ( if you build touch sensing circuit and connect both its inputs together ). Thank you Bug82 , afedorov and all other guys for clearing.
I did get a datasheet and it is 12V, yes I did flash the PIC, with the full firmware, and i do see data on SPI/I2C, so I assume PIC is running. I have looked over the soldering of the OLED, and I also see voltages and data on the flatflex[/quote]
Hello sorlok, nice to hear, you have done it and about firmware is better to flash separate bootloader and after you can change every time you want or if we get updates, by usb only, the desired firmware. If you feel unfamiliar with PC software, may be the attached sparkybg's exe application will help you.
I did get a datasheet and it is 12V, yes I did flash the PIC, with the full firmware, and i do see data on SPI/I2C, so I assume PIC is running. I have looked over the soldering of the OLED, and I also see voltages and data on the flatflex[/quote]
Can you hear a short beep, when you power the boards? Did you make all jumpers on front board ( front and back side )? It is good idea to read old posts for unpopulated places of the board and proper speaker connections - this can give you confirmation that firmware is running properly. Be sure, when connect the display board, position of the oled flat cable is up side.
[quote author="sorlok"]So I jumped on and build it. turned it on, and nothing :-) OLED is just black. So I started to check voltages, and I get 3,3 and -0.6v to the frontboard. Then I jumped on the display PCB, There is 12v. RES=+3v D/C=+3v CS=DATA burst OLEDVCCIN=3.3V OLEDVDD=3V SDO=DATA burst SCK=DATA Allot.
Am I looking at a defective OLED. it's a 1,3" with the correct controller, and I got a datasheet with it ? Any help appreciated, Thanks Also thanks to Sparky[/quote]
Hello sorlok, welcome to us, All Voltages are correct if you are using black&white oled 1.3inch ( same as mine ), or if you are not, you have to ask the seller for oled Vcc (12V or 9V), did you program the controller? Please, check for correct soldering of OLED.
[quote author="DinikS"]Hi guys again, I want to warn you DO NOT change JBC cartridges in hot, switch off the station before. I had a magic smoke from Q2 when I changed cartrige one to another on T245 handle. Now the station works only with T210 JBC handle. If I connect T245 the Q2 heats very much I think I should exchange it.[/quote]
Hello DinikS, change the Q2 as soon as possible, it is already in fail condition. When you built touch sensing circuit, you can connect both its inputs together, just incase your hand forward your mind, the time tip touches the exchange plate, it will acts as a sleep and heater will be timely disconnected until reach sleep temp. Unfortunately you have to pass trough OFF-ON cycle again, controller to be able to recognise the cartridge ( some small bug ). I did not know, that you are going to use JBC handles for that station, touch sensing solution is much more convenient and easy built. You will see.
