well thanks to everyone's help and all the links and reading..etc.. I have some of my own results to report/show.. :)
I wont go into the Windows settings/as thats all been posted here already..
but I have some (what Im referring to as) Idle Loop approach test results:
*this is using the ULP script for CADSoft Eagle to export a .dxf file from your CREAM layer. *'did' cut all the way through on mylar setting, but same results as most people posted using this approach...(would probably work in a pinch)
Of course the big 'hub-bub is about the 'gerbertographtec' Python approach.. as it has/does much cleaner looking cuts
I tried different settings with blade on setting: 1
*never got a penetrating cut *not usable
2-passes:
3-passes tried: (same results, no penetrating cut)
as you can see though.. the cuts (outlines) are much crisper/straighter, the pics dont do it justice with the shadow and not being cut out all the way..
bumped up the blade setting to: 2
*but needed to SHRINK the CREAM layer as mentioned.. (this was really a key piece for me, and could only get it down to 4mil shrinkage)
*finally penetrating cuts! *useable, clean..
*light force pressure on second pass:
*medium force pressure on second pass:
these tests were performed on mylar that I cut off some Pololu stencils for testing..
I am currently testing Apollo Write-On transparencies as well.. (first test cut didnt penetrate either.. blade setting was: 2)
bumped up to: '3' and am re-cutting as now....9:45pm (central time) :)
Apollo test 1 = fail (no penetration again)
I looked at blade.. (seemed to have point still... but noticed it was logged a bit with some vinyl...
YIKES!.. I cleaned it out.. and am re-running the Apollo test again...
1.) Im on Windows.. (so Im never sure if this is applies to windows or only Linux/mac people...seems ot be edit to script..so shouldnt matter?)
2.) if you (dare) read back on my posts.. I could never get a command line to work from a CMD prompt.... I always got error(s), after error(s) (I believe this was because I originally thought the > needed to be replaced for / because of the Windows pathing/file system).. it was until I used the .bat file posted that I was even able to get past (most) errors..and actually send anything to the Cameo to be cut..
*I still am getting some GerbV error about an Entry Point..etc..etc and Image_Magik++.dll dynamic library..etc..
Here is the .bat file I am using
Quote
@echo off rem This is for printer named "Cameo" which must be named and shared in control panel. rem This is for computer named "hacker" echo. echo This script will send gerber file to Cameo for cutting solder stencil. echo Generates intermediate files .pdf, .pic, and .graphtec.txt echo. echo Set your Cameo blade to 1 and turn cutter on. echo Load mylar sheet (landscape) at upper-left corner of mat. echo. set /p filename= Enter filename of gerber (eg: test.spt or board.gbr): gerber2graphtecgerber2graphtec.py %filename% > %filename%.graphtec.txt copy /B %filename%.graphtec.txt \hackerCameo
--force f[,f2[,f3]] use force f in device units; f2,f3 for multiple passes" Im guessing I need to add this parameter to/after the gerbertographtect.py?
if you are referring to the 'rachetting' blade..yes..
I have tried blade settings 1 & 2
Quote
"I havent been able to get a clean cut all the way through using blade setting of 1..
a setting of: 2 rips corners..and merges small pads together.."
or is there another way to adjust it, using this gerbertographtec Python approach? as far as I know thats the only way to adjust the blade using this method..right? :)
In Silhouette Studio I know there are settings for speed & thickness/pressure... but not using this .bat file/Python script approach. (or did I miss it?) :)
1 'looks nice' but just doesnt cut all the way through.
see if I can shrink things.. and try blade 2 again..
this is the same mylar that Pololu.com uses for their stencils..
Hoping to pick up some of the Apollo write-on transparencies tonight though.. (they are expensive though, so I hope this works out!) lol
I havent been able to get a clean cut all the way through using blade setting of 1..
a setting of: 2 rips corners..and merges small pads together..
any ideas on a fix or work around at this point
Windows XP stock set-up using .bat file posted
Im going to try and shrink the cream layer tonight (alot) and try a blade setting of two again..
(since setting 1 doesnt make it all the way through)
@2blmaster -
anything this there (optimize.py file) or pressure or thickness settings?
Im stuck in between the IDLE LOOP approach and the GERBERTORAPHTEC approach..
1.) not the best 'cuts' as far as alignment/straight, but all the way through, and good spacing other 2.) great 'looking' cuts, bad spacing (maybe fixable before export in Eagle).and didnt cut through the mylar all the way.. =(
I think we were both posting at the same time.. LOL
I understand why its so accurate.. goes back to 'home' before each cut!..
I only asked about the placement, because if I want some more meat on my actual stencil.. I have to move some off the matt.. not a big deal or a deal breaker..
and Im not sure where 'connecting' on this Dimensions layer thing.. LOL (although I explained a bit more/better above)..
example my PCB has an ODD shape...... a circle PCB for example.. that 'shape' I want pcb to be cut is in the Dimensions layer....
for the stencil I dont need my PCB outline (the circle) cut.. I only need (like you explained) the 1" in border from the PUTER BOUNDS of ACTUAL CUTS...
cutting out the shape of my pcb defeats the purpose of having a stencil.. hard to smear paste over a sheet/stencil thats the same size/shape as your PCB.. in my first cuts.. this layer was in there.. as I took same gerbers I sent to fab house.. I needed to remove this layer, re-export and use that in my gerbertographtec tests.. :)
I need to somehow fix the spacing (maybe the 2mil shrink of cream layer you mentioned in previous post will help this?) in my ATmega328P-AU pads... (done through Eagle somehow Im assuming?)
yes.. my latest, smaller pcb cut time did take roughly half an hour too.. (which is even better!)
I thikn it gives the BEST cuts as far as 'straight and positioning'... I just need to get full cuts.. so its a 'real' stencil!! lol..
maybe shrinking cream layer and going to blade setting of: 2?
MUCH faster!.. (went upstairs for a few..came down it was done.. but as mentioned its a really small and simple layout)
I had the blade set @ "2".. and some of the holes were ripped/merged together.. (ie: one long hole)
re-doing the same cut at blade setting of: '1'
Test Cut #3:
Resources: * all apps install as default set-ups * created directory C:gerber-files-to-cut (files here are my .bat file and the gerber file I want convert/cut) * copied gerbertographtec folder to - C:gerber-files-to-cutgerber2graphtec (where all default gerbertographtec files reside.. I have only added .py extension and edited those two lines for 'paths' I believe it was for ) * printer shared out correctly (Cameo) * edited .bat file with my info (computer name)
Settings: * Blade setting: 1 * Using mat (yes)
File: * created using CADSoft Eagle * iTeadStudio CAM file to generate GERBER files (thats usually who I use for pcb fab) * 0603 footprints & ATmega328P-AU SMD chip
Results:
Total Cut Time: 28 minutes! (no complaints!..on time that is)
* Still getting: "The procedure entry point ?construct@?$allocator@VVPath@Magik@@@std@@QAEXPAVVPath@Magik@@$$QAV34@@Z could not be located in the dynamic CORE_RL_Magik++.dll"
* (Still) Did "NOT" cut all the way through on all holes,....... (using an exacto to push on them..still didnt pop them through.. feeling the backside, its mostly smooth, showing cut didnt penetrate in most areas/holes) what can I do if blade setting 1 isnt enough and blade setting 2 is too much?
* The holes for the ATmega328P-AU chip have VERY little space between the pads... (I got better pad 'spacing' doing trying it with the ULP script that exports a .dxf file for you to use in the Silhouette Studio software from here: http://www.idleloop.com/robotics/cutter ... hp#stencil)... but of course the rest of it cuts like KAKA (slanted squares, rounded bottoms..etc)
maybe trying to compensate for it prior to export by this 'shrinking of the cream layer pads'?
* In Eagle I deleted the Dimensions layer before generating my GERBER files.... it no longer 'cuts this' PCB outline as a result.. (which is NOT the 1" board outline you were commenting on).
Off Topic:
Q1: I saw you mention something about shrinking the cream layers before export? How do you do that?
Q2: Curiosity is getting the better of me.. what is the PCB for in your posts?? haha
this is a nice trick!! (I dig this!) quote: "I made a hybrid part so I can use normal 150-mil parts, or the wider 209-mil SOP/EIJ parts. Likewise, my MAX202 is able to use the 150-mil narrow or 300-mil wide parts. Why have procurement problems in the future?"
Im going to pick up some of that Apollo write-on transparency sheets.. ($50 a pack.. YIKES!) see if it yields better results than this mylar.. :(
4mil is getting to be thick for fine pitch parts though!.. I dont think Id' wanna use thicker than 4mil... (depends on the components I guess) :)
nice job!.. I do same.. except, I use a toaster over, not a hot griddle.. :)
I am doing another test run..
bigger piece of mylar in there now..
ran same .bat as posted before..
(I get the same stupid ENTRY POINT error about pstoedit)..
oh, and to comment,.... I have installed all apps in their default locations as well.. no deviation (not sure why or what that errors means)..
I opened by .brd file.. edited out the DIMENSIONS layer... (so it doesnt cut the pcb outline)..
started cut @ 7:45 pm..
my file is no bigger than the size of a US quarter.. (a ATmega328P-Au chip and a couple 0603 leds/resistor footprints..)
last time I sent it to cutter it took over 4 hours..and I had to cancel it..
lets see what happens this time! (from what i could tell form last test.. the cuts were AMAZING!.. and if only 2 hours wait.. Im happy as heck with it!)
would be nice to figure out a way to get the file 'centered' somehow though..
Im not sure what part(s) I am NOT doing correctly then?
let me re-cap to see if you can spot something I didnt do correctly? or am missing?
OS: Windows XP
* I have the same gerbertographtec directory in root on my C: drive..
* I did CD into the C: drive.. and use the command line from there (root of C: where I called the command line.. as shown above in the command lines I posted that I used.. are they NOT correct?
* Printer 'was' seen as Cameo in printer profiles.. (shared it out as 'Cameo' as well)
I have installed: Python 2.7.5 pstoedit GerbV Ghostscript (GraphicMagik as well)
Edits to Gerbertographtec:
* add .py file extension to the gerber2graphtec file * Edit gerber2graphtec.py lines:
**Q1: Is the above correct? I edited out the (x86) portion..
pstoedit changes:
Everytime I would run the command lines given above.. I would get error about the image_magik_.dll file.. and things would crash.
Quote
Problem during opening of pstoedit driver plugin: C:Program Filespstoeditdrvm agick.dll. This is no problem as long the driver in this library is not needed. Possibly you need to install further libraries and/or extend the LD_LIBRARY_PATH (*nix) or PATH (Windows) environment variables. Could not open file _tmp_gerber.pdf for input Traceback (most recent call last): File "C:gerber2graphtec-mastergerber2graphtec.py", line 105, in <module> strokes = pic.read_pic(temp_pic) File "C:gerber2graphtec-masterpic.py", line 5, in read_pic f = open(filename,"r") IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '_tmp_gerber.pic'
If I take the Image_Magik _.dll file out of the cirectory.. it does NOT give this error/message
**Q2: Do I need to take the .dll out of the directory.. or not?
*GerbV seems to be the problem?
NO MATTER WHAT I TRY (adding/removing files using different/alt command lines..etc)..
GerbV also 'crashes'.. I get huge pop-up that Gerbv has crashed.. and do I want to send error report..etc..
then in the CMD prompt/window I get this:
At this point .. I dont see any differences between our set-ups.. besides that fact you are using a batch script to execute things.. (which I am going to try next)
*Q3: Do you have your .spt file in the gerber-files-to-cut directory? or the gerber-files-to-cut/gerber2graphtec directory?
I did change out the > to slashes in the command line (because with them it threw errors).. so I will go back and leave them in and try again.. (or just try your batch script)
Here is my edited batch file based off yours:
Quote
@echo off rem This is for printer named "Cameo" which must be named and shared in control panel. rem This is for computer named "hacker" echo. echo This script will send gerber file to Cameo for cutting solder stencil. echo Generates intermediate files .pdf, .pic, and .graphtec.txt echo. echo Set your Cameo blade to 1 and turn cutter on. echo Load mylar sheet (landscape) at upper-left corner of mat. echo. set /p filename= Enter filename of gerber (eg: test.spt or board.gbr): gerber2graphtecgerber2graphtec.py %filename% > %filename%.graphtec.txt copy /B %filename%.graphtec.txt \hackerCameo
I have now copied your file structure..
C:gerber-files-to-cut &
C:gerber-files-to-cutgerber2graphtec
(dropped the -master portion of the name... and this is where all the .py stuff resides as well)
Update 1: tried it once..
got a 'quick' (I think) message that said file not found or something? closed before I could be sure?
I then moved the .bat file you suggested I create to the: C:gerber-files-to-cut directory.. and ran it.. (success, as in it prompted for name and did output some files)
at least as far as it 'creating' a file to be used..
I continued to press "OK" to cut.. loaded mat/media.. scanned it in/out for awhile (like it was registering) make some noises like it was cutting.. but quit/stopped quickly...(not more than a minute or two)..
and say UNLOAD (like it was done).. I check the mylar on the mat.. no cuts at all? I tried to open the _tmp_.pdf file.. (0kb..and wont open ..says error or corrupt)
not sure what I can use to view a .pic file (PS says not valid)
the graphtec.txt file actually DOES have some data in it:
Im doing better now with the batch script.. (no more errors on GerbV)
am I missing something else then?
thanks!!
update 2:
I put BACK the Image_Magik_.dll file into the _root of the pstoedit directory.. (I had previously removed it due to an error)..
re-ran the .bat file again.. entered in name.. hit enter..
BAM!@.. this time I actually cut 'files' with data in them..
.pdf opens and looks like the gerber file the Cameo 'is' cutting something.. (not done.. so no results yet)
I noticed on the .pdf preview.. the board OUTLINE (dimensions layer) is also there in red... I read this will be cut out?
Do we need to remove the dimensions layer before exporting gerbers then to void the stencil outline from being cut out of the mylar?
Also.. lastly..
I still get this error: The procedure entry point ?construct@?$allocator@VVPath@Magik@@@std@@QAEXPAVVPath@Magik@@$$QAV34@@Z could not be located in the dynamic CORE_RL_Magik++.dll
* should I copy the .dll's from the Image_Magik installation directory.. (which I did/installed on my own not part as anyone directions during searching for a solution last night) to the pstoedit directory or something?
if it works.. I suppose I can 'live' with the error message.. just curious as to why Im getting it and how to solve it. :)
thanks for all the help so far.. the bat file seems to be the key for me!.
*update 3:
still printing (cutting).. been a long time now 1+ hours Im guessing so far.....
I lifted the cover of the Cameo to ensure it was actually cutting...
it is... (so Im happy I hope it turns out as great as everyone elses!)..
Still have the last ERROR though?
Anyways... what I wanted to ask last was:
my file seems to be cutting at the TOP/CENTER position.. and NOT in the upper LEFT CORNER.. (more 'left' of the top, dead center to be accurate)
Which got me thinking..
how can you place where the cut file is going to be positioned on the Cameo?
if I wanted to put in a 8.5 x 11" piece of mylar (or even lets say a 4" x 4" piece)...
how would I 'center' that? or at east have some control over the placement as to not waste media? (mylar/kapton/transparencies..etc..etc)
I'll have to check out the kapton sources I have saved..
but IMHO.. kapton is used for LASER cutters because it withstands the heat better than mylar (less edge/melting/curling..etc)
not sure it really applies here for cutters? (but maybe the way it cuts is diff/better?)
If yo 'do' work out some sort of Windows solution.. I'd LOVE a step-by-step..
I've still be googling and trying different things.. (including installing GraphicsMagik as well as copying .dlls to the pstoedit directory).
I have currently REMOVED the drvmagik.dll file..
and tried the command line again..
NO MATTER I TRY (adding/removing files using different/alt command lines..etc)..
GerbV also 'crashes'.. I get huge pop-up that Gerbv has crashed.. and do I want to send error report..etc..
then in the CMD prompt/window I get this:
Quote
C:>gerber2graphtec-mastergerber2graphtec.py board.gbr > result.txt Could not open file _tmp_gerber.pdf for input Traceback (most recent call last): File "C:gerber2graphtec-mastergerber2graphtec.py", line 105, in <module> strokes = pic.read_pic(temp_pic) File "C:gerber2graphtec-masterpic.py", line 5, in read_pic f = open(filename,"r") IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '_tmp_gerber.pic'
or any of the other error message posted above too..
It wouldnt harm the Cameo in ANY way shape or form.. (but I understand.. it is what it is!) LOL
you can order mylar or kapton on line..
for the transparencies they are talking about.. I have seen them at my local Office Depot (the Apollo write-on ones)
Are you on a Windows platform? or a Mac/Linux based machine?
I'm still having trouble with the whole thing on Windows..(XP)
whatever this means.. is where Im stuck at for now:
Quote
C:>C:gerber2graphtec-mastergerber2graphtec.py board.gbr > result.txt Could not open file _tmp_gerber.pdf for input Traceback (most recent call last): File "C:gerber2graphtec-mastergerber2graphtec.py", line 105, in <module> strokes = pic.read_pic(temp_pic) File "C:gerber2graphtec-masterpic.py", line 5, in read_pic f = open(filename,"r") IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '_tmp_gerber.pic'
*** in original post it was stated to use this: C:/Program Files (x86) this DOES NOT WORK?FIT with Windows XP pathing ***
This will get Python and GerbV running without any errors being given..
pstoedit changes:
Everytime I would run the command lines given above.. I would get error about the image_magik_.dll file.. and things would crash.
Quote
Problem during opening of pstoedit driver plugin: C:Program Filespstoeditdrvm agick.dll. This is no problem as long the driver in this library is not needed. Possibly you need to install further libraries and/or extend the LD_LIBRARY_PATH (*nix) or PATH (Windows) environment variables. Could not open file _tmp_gerber.pdf for input Traceback (most recent call last): File "C:gerber2graphtec-mastergerber2graphtec.py", line 105, in <module> strokes = pic.read_pic(temp_pic) File "C:gerber2graphtec-masterpic.py", line 5, in read_pic f = open(filename,"r") IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '_tmp_gerber.pic'
*still not sure how to handle this.. but a google search returned a post from an INKSCAPE forum member with same errors... removed the .dll from the directory.. and no longer getting the error.. (is it needed?)
**note:
it looks like the script is looking for a .gbr file (I think it needs to be int he GerbtoGraphtec root directory...)
Based on your pcb design software.. (I use Eagle).. the CAM script you use will export and control the names of the gerber files (make sure you get a .gbr file exported)
I took my file.. changed extension from .gts to be .gbr.. and put in the root gerbertographtec folder in my C: drive..
called board.gbr
anyways.. moving forward.. I gave it a shot, using this as my command line..
When I try it.. GerbV.exe crashes... (send error report..etc)
this is the error I am given in the CMD prompt box:
Quote
C:>C:gerber2graphtec-mastergerber2graphtec.py board.gbr > result.txt Could not open file _tmp_gerber.pdf for input Traceback (most recent call last): File "C:gerber2graphtec-mastergerber2graphtec.py", line 105, in <module> strokes = pic.read_pic(temp_pic) File "C:gerber2graphtec-masterpic.py", line 5, in read_pic f = open(filename,"r") IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '_tmp_gerber.pic'
At this point Im not sure WHAT else I can do? I see other Windows user are having success! (I want to be part of that club too!) LOL
Am I missing something? Something not configured correctly? anything?
were the last several posts DONE through Windows??
the "SUCCESS" post above?
and all the links to the Windows versions of the apps to get?
So now the stance is this is NOT Windows compatible?
</confused>
moving on:
Also.. looking at the errors again.. I think its erring out on GerbV now? (which makes me think Python is working ok.. if you dont use >> instead of / slashes in the paths..
Question:
Where you choose the Gerber file you are trying to 'cut'? It needs to be in the command line somewhere?
is that test.gbr file you change to be your own? and then you have to have it in a 'certain' directory? Which one?
Also Im on Windows XP (not Windows 7)..
are these truly the correct edits to be making to the gerbertographtec.py script?
I cant get ANYWHERE with those command lines posted.. not sure if those are for WINDOWS or not?
I dont recognize the > stuff in there?
so I tried to remove those and use slashes like Windows does for its pathing..
and it looks like Im getting a step closer.. but still more odd errors:
Quote
C:Documents and Settingswhispers>C:gerber2graphtec-master>gerber2graphtec.py test.gbr > result.txt 'C:gerber2graphtec-master' is not recognized as an internal or external command operable program or batch file.
options: --offset x,y translate to device coordinates x,y (inches) --border bx,by leave a border around the bounding box of the gerber file --matrix a,b,c,d transform coordinates by [a b;c d] --speed s[,s2[,s3]] use speed s in device units; s2,s3 for multiple passes --force f[,f2[,f3]] use force f in device units; f2,f3 for multiple passes --cut_mode [0|1] 0 for highest accuracy (fine pitch), 1 for highest speed
defaults: --offset 4.0,0.5 suitable for letter size (portrait) on the Cameo, fed as "me dia" not "mat" --border 1,1 1-inch border in x and y around gerber bounding box --matrix 1,0,0,1 identity linear transform for scale and skew calibration --speed 2,2 use two passes, speed 2 in each pass --force 8,30 use force 8 for first pass, force 30 for second pass --cut_mode 0 highest accuracy
C:>C:gerber2graphtec-mastergerber2graphtec.py test.gbr > result.txt 'C:/Program' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.
Problem during opening C:Program Filespstoeditdrvmagick.dll:The specified mod ule could not be found.
Problem during opening of pstoedit driver plugin: C:Program Filespstoeditdrvm agick.dll. This is no problem as long the driver in this library is not needed. Possibly you need to install further libraries and/or extend the LD_LIBRARY_PATH (*nix) or PATH (Windows) environment variables. Could not open file _tmp_gerber.pdf for input Traceback (most recent call last): File "C:gerber2graphtec-mastergerber2graphtec.py", line 104, in <module> strokes = pic.read_pic(temp_pic) File "C:gerber2graphtec-masterpic.py", line 5, in read_pic f = open(filename,"r") IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '_tmp_gerber.pic'
Anybody help out with some suggestions for WINDOWS users to get this up and running?
How does this 'command line' stuff actually find or use the Eagle file you want to use as the source for cutting?
